Biting the hand that feeds them?

[sandyRoe]

http://uk.news.yahoo....d-dead-115243701.html

[naomi24]

Craft, // I thought Sandy was being ironic..................and found Naomi's comment about the poor atheists utterly hilarious. //

You’re imagining things again. I’ve mentioned Sandy’s extremely poor taste, but ‘poor atheists’ - no. It’s not something I think – and it’s not something I would ever say. Unlike you and your buddies, atheists neither need, nor seek, the sympathy vote. Their philosophy stands on its own merits. And speaking of irony, isn’t it odd that you don’t find it quite so hilarious when you object to something - even if you’re actually wrong and your claimed fragile sensibilities are piqued by nothing other than your complete ignorance of the subject under discussion. No fun there, is there?! If you have something to say, say it – but do try to stop fantasising.

Nox,// I don't think you can say whether anyone else is being ironic or not//

Funny. The last time I looked you seemed to have formed a judgement.

//I can see the humour and irony//

Changed your mind, I expect.

Em, //And as others point out these type of atrocities are still being committed in the name of religion.//

I, like you and others, fail to see the humour in that – but it seems the champions of the god called ‘Spite’ disagree with us. I wonder what Jesus would say? Just a thought.

[emmie]

If Jesus walked the earth now, he would be horrified at the atrocities mankind has inflicted and still inflicts on others, in the name of religion, no matter which one.

[sandyRoe]

If Jesus was here now he might say: 'Would somebody help me back up onto my cross? I've had my fill of this.'

[naomi24]

I suspect he'd take one look at his 'flock', and say 'who are these people?'

[NOX]

I tell you what Sandy, I might just ask if I could be nailed up there with him at this rate- and I'm anything but a Christian.
It's a really inane line of argument when if somone disagrees with you you accuse them of being rude Em. I absolutely and irrefuteably respect your right to have whatever opinion you please, but I do not have to agree with it, nor do I have to put up with Naomi constantly accusing anyone who disagrees with her of 'putting words into her mouth' etc etc etc. It defeats me why otherwise perfectly sensible women can't seem to handle the fact that another adult doesn't share what they percieve to be their wisdom on whatever subject. I am not rude to people who disagree with me, I've been here for 8 years and never been banned or suspended and only ever had one answer removed (which poked fun at myself actually) but I won't be dictated to about what I think or feel or see another member unfairly accused of something which is patently untrue and to be honest despite not being either a Muslim or Christian myself, nor will I see any religious ( or Atheist for that matter ) group held up to scorn simply because of their beliefs. It's not right and it's not fair to do so with the sweeping statements usually heard in R&S.
Sandy's choice of avatar is his own affair- if he says it was meant ironically then I am happy to take him at his word, if you can't see it fair enough but no need for the patronising and moralising lectures surely?

[birdie1971]

NOX - “... Sandy's choice of avatar is his own affair- if he says it was meant ironically then I am happy to take him at his word, if you can't see it fair enough but no need for the patronising and moralising lectures surely?”

With all due respect NOX, I think you've missed the point. I don't think that people object to Sandy's avatar – I certainly don't. The objections are due to the statements that both he and Jno have made: “...Thomas de Torquemada. Now, he was a chap who would give all the atheists here in AB short shrift... Austere authority, a simple life, and a strong desire to see souls saved. Much to be admired there, I'd say...” [Sandy]

and...

“... Torquemada remained true to his beliefs, as do so many others on AB, and was not in the least out of step with his age, so we all have much to learn from his example...” [Jno]


↑ That's the problem.

[birdie1971]

Sandy - “If Jesus was here now he might say: 'Would somebody help me back up onto my cross? I've had my fill of this.'”

I absolutely agree with you. He would be appalled. But not, I suspect, at debates such as this. More that the likes of Torquemada had wilfully and barbarically corrupted His message of turning the other cheek by sanctioning the murder of thousands of people in His name.

I haven't read the Bible in a while but I can't for the life of me remember the Gospel of Genocide. Maybe some Christian could point me in the direction of the Biblical passages in which Jesus calls for the death of all those who refuse to convert?

[NOX]

Fair enough Birdie, I can see if those statements were taken literally and meant literally that that would be deeply offensive ( in fact I too would have been offended) but I didn't take them as literal statements, I felt ( rightly or wrongly) that they were said somewhat tongue in cheek. If I'm wrong in that then that's my mistake but I did feel those remarks were aimed at winding a few people up, I could well be wrong but I'd be happy to recieve some clarification from both Sandy and Jno on the subject.

[birdie1971]

NOX -

I have taken them literally. I don't see how else to take them. They were posted without a hint of irony – they were made without any ironic context; no 'smilies' to suggest that the comments were being made in jest; and most telling of all, no real apology for making them. In fact, in the case of Jno, all we get is belligerent arrogance...

“Torquemada is estimated to have had 2,000 people killed. Hitler is estimated to have had 6 million killed, and that's just the Jews, never mind the millions more dead in the war It was to stop hyperbolic frothing-at-the-mouth comparisons like that that Godwin's law was invented - but you're only too happy to invoke it when it suits your own argument... Work on your sense of proportion.” [Jno]


Not much irony there, I think you'll agree. So I, like you, would like some clarification.

[craft1948]

Unlike you and your buddies

I'll have to think about that one................

[naomi24]

^^ That's not a bad idea.

[emmie]

so some understood the reference to irony, finally.

[naomi24]

Just the concept of ‘principle’ to go now.

[sandyRoe]

Naomi,

"...so lets have no more of your phoney, sanctimonious, self-pitying sermons..."
The unwritten convention of no personal attacks has been set aside, has it?

[jno]

Nox, you have read me perfectly

[naomi24]

No, it hasn’t Sandy. When a self-confessed non-believer attempts to defend his indefensible mistakes with biblical texts, it is sanctimonious, it is self-pitying, and it is phoney. A simple apology would have been more honest and certainly more dignified.

[sandyRoe]

You needn't apologise, Naomi. I understand that for some people feelings can run high during debates.

[naomi24]

Sandy, you disappoint me. I thought you were better than this.

[jno]

some people don't do apologies, sandyRose, just flounces.

[jno]

sandyRoe, I mean of course, I didn't mean to compare you to Abie's irish Rose