Film, Media & TV5 mins ago
Patrick Moore: "The only food Kraut is a dead Kraut
Is there a time limit for hatred?
Let's bring race into it (hoorah, I hear you cry)...if a black chap from the Deep South who'd witnessed lynchings in the 40s and 50s had said, "The only good white man is a dead white man", would that be more or less shocking than what Mr Moore had said?
Indeed - should we be shocked at all?
http://www.dailymail....b-killed-fianc-e.html
Let's bring race into it (hoorah, I hear you cry)...if a black chap from the Deep South who'd witnessed lynchings in the 40s and 50s had said, "The only good white man is a dead white man", would that be more or less shocking than what Mr Moore had said?
Indeed - should we be shocked at all?
http://www.dailymail....b-killed-fianc-e.html
Answers
shed off the shackles of slavery
What do you actually mean?
It is (artfully but not helpfully) vague when compared with sp's very clear analogy with people alive today who saw loved ones killed by whites in the 1950s.
What do you actually mean?
It is (artfully but not helpfully) vague when compared with sp's very clear analogy with people alive today who saw loved ones killed by whites in the 1950s.
13:10 Tue 01st May 2012
I live in Germany (the old East). There is no English expat community here and all my friends are German. None of them have any problem with my being English, even the older ones who fought the English or lost family in the war. My family in England, some of them old enough to have lived through the war, have no problems with my OH being German. I have been to Dresden, where the dmage done by the RAF was significantly worse than the damage done by the Luftwaffe in, for example, Coventry. If you do a tour of the city it is talked about, but the English visitors aren't blamed for it. My father died of cancer and my mother blamed their GP for not taking his symptoms seriously, but she didn't hate all doctors on that basis. Germans are as human as English people - it is wrong to hate a whole nation because of what happened in the past.
it is connected in a way, i watched a part of Mary Beard's programme on The Romans, and one of the things she brought up was slavery, which was integral to life in Roman life. Even so far as slaves owning slaves, so it isn't new, nor has it stopped happening around the world. Girls are trafficked into Britain to be used as sex slaves, why isn't more being done about that.
em
it isn't new, nor has it stopped happening around the world.
what has that to do with a debate about whether our own history should be either;
acknowledged
or
suppressed or at least never talked about
and why is that debate met with squeals about things being 'shoved down people's throats all the time' when it clearly isn't.
Unless you have evidence for this continous 'throat shoving'?
it isn't new, nor has it stopped happening around the world.
what has that to do with a debate about whether our own history should be either;
acknowledged
or
suppressed or at least never talked about
and why is that debate met with squeals about things being 'shoved down people's throats all the time' when it clearly isn't.
Unless you have evidence for this continous 'throat shoving'?
/// Or are you suggesting that the events concerning British involvement in the slave trade; our resulting maritime growth, ///
So it was because of the slave trade that we possessed the best navy in the world, excuse me but we were off navigating the globe and discovering new lands way before the slave trade.
/// the development of our main Banks, founding of Lloyds of London, new processing industries such as Tate & Lyle, and the massive growth in manufacturing to provide goods traded for slaves, equipment for the plantations, not to mention the chains, padlocks and neck rings should never be mentioned and ideally treated as though they never happened? ///
Don't you think that a country as old and enterprising as Britain, would not have come up with the idea of banks and then built them even if there wasn't any slave trade?
We have been a nation of traders for thousands of years, we imported spices for example so do you not think we would not have come up with process machinery to posses other imports such as sugar etc?
Your mention of the manufacture of chains, padlocks and neck rings etc, are you saying these were just made specifically for slaves, Newgate Prison, and Australian penal colonies were also good customers for this kind of prison jewellery?
/// Are Afro-Caribbean Brits 'always accusing' the rest of us for our 'ancestors misdeeds' in the slave trade? ///
Perhaps not to you or I personally, but some are not slow to accuse 'the white man' at every chance they get.
So it was because of the slave trade that we possessed the best navy in the world, excuse me but we were off navigating the globe and discovering new lands way before the slave trade.
/// the development of our main Banks, founding of Lloyds of London, new processing industries such as Tate & Lyle, and the massive growth in manufacturing to provide goods traded for slaves, equipment for the plantations, not to mention the chains, padlocks and neck rings should never be mentioned and ideally treated as though they never happened? ///
Don't you think that a country as old and enterprising as Britain, would not have come up with the idea of banks and then built them even if there wasn't any slave trade?
We have been a nation of traders for thousands of years, we imported spices for example so do you not think we would not have come up with process machinery to posses other imports such as sugar etc?
Your mention of the manufacture of chains, padlocks and neck rings etc, are you saying these were just made specifically for slaves, Newgate Prison, and Australian penal colonies were also good customers for this kind of prison jewellery?
/// Are Afro-Caribbean Brits 'always accusing' the rest of us for our 'ancestors misdeeds' in the slave trade? ///
Perhaps not to you or I personally, but some are not slow to accuse 'the white man' at every chance they get.
what simple truth?
that our country was a major player in the enslavement of millions and that involvement harmed many people and had a major positive impact on this country's economic development with benefits right through to ourselves in the present day
Nobody alive today had any part in it so apologies are not appropriate
It was so - we shouldn't be afraid or coy about that.
So we shouldn't pillory anyone just because they mention it
Any more than we should attack Bambi for mentioning the civilians we deliberately killed in Dresden.
Things happened in the past for all sorts of reasons some good some bad - denial or suppression shouldn't be an option.
that our country was a major player in the enslavement of millions and that involvement harmed many people and had a major positive impact on this country's economic development with benefits right through to ourselves in the present day
Nobody alive today had any part in it so apologies are not appropriate
It was so - we shouldn't be afraid or coy about that.
So we shouldn't pillory anyone just because they mention it
Any more than we should attack Bambi for mentioning the civilians we deliberately killed in Dresden.
Things happened in the past for all sorts of reasons some good some bad - denial or suppression shouldn't be an option.
our history as you call it, has been picked over, often rubbished, and generally stomped on, and i am not referring to AB. Though some on here come up with this subject over and over, where i have already said, the slave trade was vile, it should never have happened, but it did.
If you think that the British Empire was built entirely on the back of slavery well that is your prerogative. It has been acknowledged by politicians, apologies have been made, what else can one do. Make financial reparation, if so to who.
If you think that the British Empire was built entirely on the back of slavery well that is your prerogative. It has been acknowledged by politicians, apologies have been made, what else can one do. Make financial reparation, if so to who.
Old Git
you may be interested in this section of The English Heritage website
http://www.english-he...ckground-information/
as you may see, the slave trade was instrumental and significant in the initial development of many of our institutions we take for granted.
you may be interested in this section of The English Heritage website
http://www.english-he...ckground-information/
as you may see, the slave trade was instrumental and significant in the initial development of many of our institutions we take for granted.
e.g.
<<The Bank of England was set up in 1694, and underpinned the whole system of commercial credit, and its wealthy City members, from the governor down, often made their money wholly or partly in the slave trade. >>
<<Provincial banking across England only emerged in the 18th century, with Liverpool slave trading merchants forming Heywoods Bank, which later became part of Barclays Bank. >>
<<Copper, cloth, glassware, beads, ammunition, alcohol, guns and ammunition, and metal hand cuffs, leg irons, chains and manilas went from Britain to Africa. Enslaved Africans and indigo went from Africa to the Americas (ivory, gold and palm oil also came back to Britain). Raw sugar, rum, rice, coffee, tobacco and cotton went from the Americas back to Britain. >>
<<In the early days of the slave trade a group of merchants or what we would now call venture capitalists would finance a ship; over time more formal financial organisations including Lloyds and Barings banks were established for this purpose.>>
etc etc
It's good reading for anyone interested in the development of Great Britain and its Empire
<<The Bank of England was set up in 1694, and underpinned the whole system of commercial credit, and its wealthy City members, from the governor down, often made their money wholly or partly in the slave trade. >>
<<Provincial banking across England only emerged in the 18th century, with Liverpool slave trading merchants forming Heywoods Bank, which later became part of Barclays Bank. >>
<<Copper, cloth, glassware, beads, ammunition, alcohol, guns and ammunition, and metal hand cuffs, leg irons, chains and manilas went from Britain to Africa. Enslaved Africans and indigo went from Africa to the Americas (ivory, gold and palm oil also came back to Britain). Raw sugar, rum, rice, coffee, tobacco and cotton went from the Americas back to Britain. >>
<<In the early days of the slave trade a group of merchants or what we would now call venture capitalists would finance a ship; over time more formal financial organisations including Lloyds and Barings banks were established for this purpose.>>
etc etc
It's good reading for anyone interested in the development of Great Britain and its Empire
no i mentioned zillions of posts ago i don't need any apologies from anyone, why would I. Mankind has been killing, using, and generally abusing one another since they first walked the earth, i don't see that likely to change any day soon.
zeuhl
If you think that the British Empire was built entirely on the back of slavery
zeuhl
If you think that the British Empire was built entirely on the back of slavery
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