If Ever There Was A Case For The Death Penalty In The UK

[Philtaz]

Surely this is it?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/...mbridgeshire-18070507

Waste of taxpayers money. Bullet through the back of the head and a shallow ditch would be more appropriate IMHO.

Helmet on, incoming..............

[flip_flop]

I am against the death penalty, however, for crimes as heinous as this one (and Huntley, the Baby P killers, Nielson, Sutcliffe et al) I do believe life should be life.

Further, I would like to see their life sentences served in dank dark cells without playstations, TVs, radios etc... and given enough bread and water to keep them alive.

Basically, make their existence a living hell.

If they then choose to take their own lives, so be it.

[flip_flop]

Surely this would be a deterrent much more so than the threat of death, wouldn't it?

[Tizzi24]

I agree Phil. But as he's got 17 years, he should be put in general prison and not segregated and should not be allowed parole at any time. With a bit of luck, the other prisoners will mete out justice.

[chi-chi66]

If you saw the tv programme about this place, it gave a more indepth
than this article. A place where this scum should go.



http://www.thesun.co....as-toughest-jail.html

[anotheoldgit]

I wonder why the mother is to be sentenced at a later date?

They should have been tried and sentenced together.

[Brenden]

No we have no death penalty lets bring back hard labour - no gyms, videos and the likes.

[Barmaid]

They were tried together AOG. The reason Lee was sentenced today is because he automatically gets a life sentence - the question for the Judge is what was the minimum term.

Whelan will be sentenced at a later date - she has serious mental health and other issues so I suspect that reports will be required for her.

[Barmaid]

"And of course, another damning indictment on social services et al who had plenty of 'missed opportunities' to save this poor wretch.

Someone high up will doubtless be sacked after a 'review of all the circumstances' and there'll be the obligatory wrongful dismissal case with a large payout at the end. "

I have just read the Serious Case Review on CS - whilst it makes significant criticisms of the agencies involved, it does conclude that there is no evidence that had procedures been followed little Tyler Whelan would have been saved - this is unlike the Baby P case where there were 60 reports to SS about him and Haringay SS were rightly blamed for their lack of action. Nonetheless, CS in Peterborough was in a pretty shocking state in 2010 with the Ofsted report finding them to be inadequate.

Anyway, there is no question of there being any wrongful dismissal case since Peterborough CC is staffed largely by consultants now. I wonder if the consultants concerned will be sticking their head above the parapet? Or if the Councillor with the portfolio for CS will actually do anything? I somehow doubt it.

Sorry, off point I know.

[sandyRoe]

I wonder why only a 17 and a half year tariff ?

[Barmaid]

No idea SandyRoe, but some useful information here on the minimum tariffs:-

http://www.cps.gov.uk...nces_in_murder_cases/

It must also be borne in mind that he won't be released after 17 years. That is the first point at which he will be considered for release. If he lives that long............

[chaptazbru]

Philtaz - agree with you 100% !!

[Philtaz]

I disagree Barmaid. This sounds damning enough to me and an oft repeated catalogue of errors, usually as a result of someone failing to carry out even the most basic aspects of their job individually, or as an agency:

Tyler's death followed three earlier admissions to hospital.

Doctors contacted social services when the boy suffered a broken leg in June 2010 but it was later decided no intervention was needed.

His injuries at the time of his death included 18 to his face and neck, 17 to his body, 10 to his arms and hands, and 13 to his legs, including a human bite mark.

A Serious Case Review published on Monday stated there were "numerous missed opportunities" to help Tyler, and "concern that no professional ever saw him in the family home".

Although the report's author said there was no evidence to suggest the death could have been prevented, the report condemned a "lack of professional curiosity" among agencies involved in Tyler's case.

[Philtaz]

This re-inforces my point I believe:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/...mbridgeshire-18061185

But why did Tyler die when the department had been alerted many times? Doctors had contacted social workers about his injuries.

Labour member of Peterborough City Council John Shearman said: "There are a number of failings, I can just pick on a few of them.

"First of all the referral system was inadequate.

"Secondly the recording system for social workers was archaic and cumbersome.

"Thirdly there was very poor management of the social workers and fourthly - and perhaps most important of all - there was a tremendous overload of cases."

Tyler died in the midst of four critical reports on Children's Services.



Year upon year we here the same criticisms of the relevant authorities in these tragic cases yet it appears lessons are never learned nor warnings heeded.

[jake-the-peg]

Unfortunately people zoom in on a particular case to justify their desire for capital punishment.

The law doesn't work like some royal dictator dishing out arbitary justice to reflect the outrage of the assembled mob - nor ever should it!

If you want the death penalty you have to bring it back across a category of offences and not just individual high profile cases.

Then you get into the grey areas was the victim a child at 17 or not 2 days later - did the purpertrator have an IQ high enough to have been legally responsible.

All these sort of ugly practicalities that are not of interest to the demagogue who just wants to wield the sword of righteous anger, nor the hangers on who's analytical contribution just extends to "I agree".

[emmie]

life should mean life, not 16 and a bit years, pathetic.

[Barmaid]

Errrr, why are you disagreeing? Where did I say it was not damning. I said the report "made significant criticisms". I just pointed out what the author concluded. Go and read the report as I have done rather than the cherry picked stuff off the newsites and quotes by a Labour Councillor (on a Conservative council - not that a councillor would ever try to score points off a child's death).

I also pointed out that the PCC is run by consultants. One of the biggest criticisms was about the computer system and record keeping which was "not fit for purpose" so that records could not be easily input so there was no centralised easily accessible data system. I feel slight sorry for the ground floor staff who don't have the money or support to do their jobs properly.

Furthermore, it was the medical professionals who determined that the earlier injuries were accidental because they were consistent with Tyler's explanations. Even when he died, there was some doubt as to whether the injuries were accidental or not (and this is where the biggest criticism lay about the implementation of the Child Death procedure). All I said was that this was nowhere near the gravity of Baby P where there were 60, yes 60 reports concerning him (again, go read the report).

I made the point that PCC was in a shocking state. I asked if the Cabinet member responsible or the consultants would be sticking their head above the parapet. So what are you disagreeing with me about?!

[Philtaz]

Apologies Barmaid.

Misinterpreted the gist of your post, thought you were making a case for the relevant services with the 'it does conclude that there is no evidence that had procedures been followed little Tyler Whelan would have been saved' part of the post, when in truth we'll never know.

[doctordb]

I don't believe in the death penalty but i feel that life must mean life. A civilised society must not kill even its most horrific of citizens.
Who pulls the trigger Phil?

[Barmaid]

apology accepted Philtaz. I have followed this case with interest, having been a resident of Peterborough and having carefully followed some of the problems in CS for many years.

I feel genuinely sorry for the staff. But what really rankles is that in 2010, there was an Ofsted report which condemned CS in Peterborough. Despite that report, the powers that be (ie the Head of CS and the Cabinet Member for CS) did not seem to have been able to implement the improvements that are needed until his death. Since then an extra 25 social workers have been hired, new computer systems installed and an improved management system put in place. So it took a child's death to accomplish that. Go figure.

[Philtaz]

If you're asking for a volunteer doctordb, call me Pierrepoint.