Brown and Cameron - Soul Brothers

[Gromit]

Brown always said that we would joun the Euro when th time was right. But he made sure the time was never right.

Now Cameron has said there 'could' be a referendun on EU membership, but only when the time is right.
What's the betting he will make damned sure the time is never right?

[Gromit]

Sorry for the typos
* Brown always said that we would joui the Euro when the time was right. *

[Gromit]

* join *

[HowardKennitby]

how much have you had tonight?

[jno]

hard to say. Brown was always clear he didn't want to join, god bless him. It's not so clear what Cameron's up to: offering a sop to his own backwoodsmen perhaps. It's hard to say whether he personally wants in or out of the EU.

However, he will have brought delight to the hearts of many ABers, and that is a major public benefit in itself.

[New Judge]

Apparently the time is not right now because a "Yes" vote would impede the UK's determination to negotiate a new, looser relationship with Europe.

And by the way, salmon live in trees and eat pencils for lunch.

[ludwig]

As jno says above, it's probably more to do with keeping his backbenchers happy than anything else. Politicians hardly ever seem to do or say anything these days that isn't about..

a) Staving off internal revolts
b) Appealing to the electorate
c) Wrongfooting the opposition

[jake-the-peg]

Well Ludwig that's the price of having a small majority or in Camerons' case no majority at all.

Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair had the luxury of large majorities and so could get away with (nearly) anything they wanted.

When a PM has to count his backbenchers before any vote he's got to try and keep them sweet.

Must seem like running a creche sometimes with 200 toddlers and 100 lollies!

[ludwig]

// Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair had the luxury of large majorities and so could get away with (nearly) anything they wanted. //

True. It's not just about majorities though. Brown was so unpopular he had to organise his every action in office around my points a, b and c above - or maybe he didn't have to, but that's just what his approach to government was.

[venator]

As said above, he's doing it

1 To show a big macho policy gap with the Lib Dems.

2 To get on the bandwagon before Millipede & co grab the high ground.

3 To have a big threat in the next "negotiations" with the EU.

4 He said we could hold either a referendum or an election on the issue - so he's ready for a snap election if the EU goes even sillier.

Labour have always had a deep wish to be in Europe - Workers of the world unite, and all that - Tony leant over backwards, Mandy & co wanted in.

So it's possible they might not come down against the deeply unpopular EU, and DC could just win a snap election and kick the Lib Dems into the long grass for another 50 years.

[venator]

Gromit, just for the record, which way would you vote in a referendum?

[jno]

Labour have always had a deep wish to be in Europe

And yet Britain joined under Heath, the Single European Act was signed under Maggie, and the Maastricht treaty under Major.

Definitely all Labour's fault!

[venator]

jno - are you Gromit or his Siamese twin?

I didn't say the Tories weren't involved in the shambles, just that Labour has always had more deep rooted desire to be in the great Internationale.

[anotheoldgit]

jno

/// However, he will have brought delight to the hearts of many ABers, and that is a major public benefit in itself. ///

You are wrong many ABers along with the vast majority of the British public will only be delighted when we are actually given a referendum on releasing us from the yoke of the EU.

[jno]

got any figures on this "vast majority"?

[anotheoldgit]

jno

/// got any figures on this "vast majority"? ///

Take your pick,

http://www.democracym...uk/dyk_pollwatch.html

http://yougov.co.uk/n...ritain-vote-leave-eu/

http://www.dailymail....-destroy-Britain.html

[jno]

thanks, aog

[Brenden]

jno, if either party had thought they would get a no vote on a referendum we would have had one by now.

[anotheoldgit]

Margaret says No, No, No.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2f8nYMCO2I

[anotheoldgit]

Eurosceptic or not, I think most of us could live with that type of Europe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nBt8Ahb48w

[Gromit]

// Labour have always had a deep wish to be in Europe. //

// Labour has always had more deep rooted desire to be in the great Internationale.

Absolutely not true. There was a time when Labour were the Eurosceptics.


In the 1970s and early 1980s the Labour Party was the more Eurosceptic of the two parties, with more anti-European Communities MPs than the Conservatives. In 1975, Labour held a special conference on British membership and the party voted 2-to-1 for Britain to leave the European Communities. In 1979, the Labour manifesto declared that a Labour government would "oppose any move towards turning the Community into a federation" and, in 1983, it still favoured British withdrawal from the EEC. //

In a referendum I would vote to stay in the EU.