Gun To Your Head - If You Had To Choose...
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OK let's prosecute the police then...
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19922092
Why do so many refuse to see that the primary cause of this tragedy was thousands of ticketless fans forcing there way in. Ok Plod made errors but if the afore mentioned ticketless fans had not been trying to trespass they would not have had the problem. They just keep on trying to find some poor sod of a retired copper to nail to the wall so they can absolve the real causers of this of blame.
Why do so many refuse to see that the primary cause of this tragedy was thousands of ticketless fans forcing there way in. Ok Plod made errors but if the afore mentioned ticketless fans had not been trying to trespass they would not have had the problem. They just keep on trying to find some poor sod of a retired copper to nail to the wall so they can absolve the real causers of this of blame.
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Yes I've read the report.
The reason for the crush is that there where too many people in an area designed for less people. The reason for that was that there where lots without tickets. QED. I'm not denying the police made errors or that there was a cover up. What I'm challenging is the whole angelic picture painted for one side against the other when clearly the main cause was the fact that the situation arose in the first place.
If I drive at 150mph and cause a pile up and the fire brigade make some errors and fail to save some of the crash victims then shall we prosecute the fire brigade or accept that they where trying to deal with a difficult issue and blame the true cause? that's all I'm asking.
This whole issue is being portrayed as the evil police slaying innocents. Inncoents died but mostly at the hands of those now shifting the root cause.
The reason for the crush is that there where too many people in an area designed for less people. The reason for that was that there where lots without tickets. QED. I'm not denying the police made errors or that there was a cover up. What I'm challenging is the whole angelic picture painted for one side against the other when clearly the main cause was the fact that the situation arose in the first place.
If I drive at 150mph and cause a pile up and the fire brigade make some errors and fail to save some of the crash victims then shall we prosecute the fire brigade or accept that they where trying to deal with a difficult issue and blame the true cause? that's all I'm asking.
This whole issue is being portrayed as the evil police slaying innocents. Inncoents died but mostly at the hands of those now shifting the root cause.
But do you deny that ticketless fans are at least somewhat to blame?
It strikes me that blame lies with many across the spectrum. Plod shoudl not have covered up but in those days things were very different.
But of course in the next breathe the same lefites expect us to believe what is written in Plods notebook RE: plebs.
Make yo umind up chaps.
It strikes me that blame lies with many across the spectrum. Plod shoudl not have covered up but in those days things were very different.
But of course in the next breathe the same lefites expect us to believe what is written in Plods notebook RE: plebs.
Make yo umind up chaps.
<< There was clear evidence the turnstiles at the Leppings Lane end could not process the required number of fans before kick off yet the growing danger was ignored. Senior police officers’ decision-making was hampered by poor communications, a malfunctioning radio system and the design of the police control box.
Superintendent Roger Marshall was responsible for policing outside the stadium. As the crush at the turnstiles became severe he requested the opening of exit gates to allow fans in and relieve crowd pressure. Chief Superintendent Duckenfield authorised the opening. Despite a clear view from the control box and CCTV monitors, neither Duckenfield nor his assistant, the experienced Superintendent Bernard Murray, anticipated the impact on the already packed central pens of fans.
The crush at the Leppings Lane turnstiles outside the stadium was not caused by fans arriving ‘late’. The turnstiles were inadequate to process the crowd safely, and the rate of entry insufficient to prevent a dangerous build-up outside the ground.>>
Comment on The Hillsborough report from The Daily Telegraph 12th September 2012
Superintendent Roger Marshall was responsible for policing outside the stadium. As the crush at the turnstiles became severe he requested the opening of exit gates to allow fans in and relieve crowd pressure. Chief Superintendent Duckenfield authorised the opening. Despite a clear view from the control box and CCTV monitors, neither Duckenfield nor his assistant, the experienced Superintendent Bernard Murray, anticipated the impact on the already packed central pens of fans.
The crush at the Leppings Lane turnstiles outside the stadium was not caused by fans arriving ‘late’. The turnstiles were inadequate to process the crowd safely, and the rate of entry insufficient to prevent a dangerous build-up outside the ground.>>
Comment on The Hillsborough report from The Daily Telegraph 12th September 2012
From the recent Hillsborough Independent Panel Report,
"140. As the severity of the disaster was becoming apparent, SYP Match Commander, Chief Superintendent David Duckenfield, told a falsehood to senior officials that Liverpool fans had broken into the stadium and caused an inrush into the central pens thus causing the fatal crush. While later discredited, this unfounded allegation was broadcast internationally and was the first explanation of the cause of the disaster to enter the public domain.
141. Within days, further serious allegations emerged from unnamed sources, a Police Federation spokesperson and a local Conservative MP, Irvine Patnick. These were that Liverpool fans had conspired to arrive late, many were without tickets, were exceptionally drunk and aggressive and determined to force entry into the stadium.
....
153. Consistent with Lord Justice Taylor's findings, the Panel found no evidence among the vast number of disclosed documents and many hours of video material to verify the serious allegations of exceptional levels of drunkenness, ticketlessness or violence among Liverpool fans. There was no evidence that fans had conspired to arrive late at the stadium and force entry and no evidence that they stole from the dead and dying. Documents show that fans became frustrated by the inadequate response to the unfolding tragedy. The vast majority of fans on the pitch assisted in rescuing and evacuating the injured and the dead"
"140. As the severity of the disaster was becoming apparent, SYP Match Commander, Chief Superintendent David Duckenfield, told a falsehood to senior officials that Liverpool fans had broken into the stadium and caused an inrush into the central pens thus causing the fatal crush. While later discredited, this unfounded allegation was broadcast internationally and was the first explanation of the cause of the disaster to enter the public domain.
141. Within days, further serious allegations emerged from unnamed sources, a Police Federation spokesperson and a local Conservative MP, Irvine Patnick. These were that Liverpool fans had conspired to arrive late, many were without tickets, were exceptionally drunk and aggressive and determined to force entry into the stadium.
....
153. Consistent with Lord Justice Taylor's findings, the Panel found no evidence among the vast number of disclosed documents and many hours of video material to verify the serious allegations of exceptional levels of drunkenness, ticketlessness or violence among Liverpool fans. There was no evidence that fans had conspired to arrive late at the stadium and force entry and no evidence that they stole from the dead and dying. Documents show that fans became frustrated by the inadequate response to the unfolding tragedy. The vast majority of fans on the pitch assisted in rescuing and evacuating the injured and the dead"
I have no idea why some here persist in attempting to attribute blame to ticketless fans.
The Taylor enquiry, This most recent enquiry, the words of Chief Constable Bettinson,the documented untruths told and propaganda spun to the media all say that this was not the cause of the disaster.
In the face of all this evidence, why do you persist in a contrary view?
The Taylor enquiry, This most recent enquiry, the words of Chief Constable Bettinson,the documented untruths told and propaganda spun to the media all say that this was not the cause of the disaster.
In the face of all this evidence, why do you persist in a contrary view?
youngmafbog, there's no difficulty in believing the word 'pleb' was used. It's an unusual word.It's the kind word that would stick in the memory. It has no more significance for the officer writing the log than the other words; indeed, it has far less, because calling someone a 'pleb' could not be the cause of an arrest; it wouldn't cause alarm or distress to a bystander; which the officer had considered and would have had to justify. The other language would. So why write it down, if it wasn't said? What advantage does a policeman gain in writing down that word?
And, not only is it easy to believe that officers, being human, would alter statements to cover themselves against being in serious trouble, we have abundant evidence that they did so in the Hillsborough case
And, not only is it easy to believe that officers, being human, would alter statements to cover themselves against being in serious trouble, we have abundant evidence that they did so in the Hillsborough case
fredpuli,
There is evidence that the cover up was instigated higher up than the police officers on the ground, and that PCs were leaned on to change their statements to fit in with the the now discreditted narrative that the fans were heavily drunk and that caused the tragedy. Indeed, there are several Police Officers who found their statements had been doctored, amended or deleted without their knowledge.
I don't think individual officers covering their backs adequately explains the full scale cover up which quickly swung into effect. It was co-ordinated, designed to reflect blame, and was instigated by very senior officers.
There is evidence that the cover up was instigated higher up than the police officers on the ground, and that PCs were leaned on to change their statements to fit in with the the now discreditted narrative that the fans were heavily drunk and that caused the tragedy. Indeed, there are several Police Officers who found their statements had been doctored, amended or deleted without their knowledge.
I don't think individual officers covering their backs adequately explains the full scale cover up which quickly swung into effect. It was co-ordinated, designed to reflect blame, and was instigated by very senior officers.
as factor30 has noted, this thread, even the words used, are eerily familiar
http://
Spooky!
http://
Spooky!
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