Atheists Worldwide Suffer Persecution And Discrimination.

[Kromovaracun]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/10/us-religion-atheists-idUSBRE8B900520121210

According to a report by the International Humanist and Ethical Union, atheists worldwide suffer persecution and discrimination.

I can't really think of one specific question I have, but seeing that religion often seems a hot topic (even in News, as with the recent Boy Scouts thread) I would be interested to hear my fellow ABers' thoughts on this matter.

I also think it raises an important question about the difference between the religion people put down on forms or a census and the actual beliefs they have - something which is often overlooked when people make statements like "this/that country is Christian."

[emmie]

i don't feel persecuted, but i do think that forms shouldn't need a category which says religion, what business is it of any government dept or work come to that.

[naomi24]

Yes, atheists do suffer persecution, and not only as indicated in the report. They are often despised and mistrusted for no other reason than their lack of belief. Religion is not only ‘expected’, it’s ‘demanded’. The medieval mindset that constitutes law in the eastern countries mentioned in the report is not unexpected, but the fact that an atheist’s testimony is deemed unacceptable in a western court of law is an appalling indictment of the mentality of the law-makers. Religion demands respect, but it is extremely reluctant to extend that courtesy elsewhere.

As for form-filling, people in the western world often tick ‘Christian’ because they’re conditioned by society - it’s the easiest thing to do. As Em says, there should be no requirement for religious preferences to be expressed – but since religion is imposed upon all of us, it’s no surprise that the category is considered relevant and, hence, included.

[emmie]

i was baptised in C of E, however once i was old enough to make up my own mind i ditched the whole lot. It says on my birth certificate Christian, and that is the only place it will be. I suspect that many people are in the same position. As to being persecuted as i said i don't feel that, but then again i try and stay away from all religious bodies, and generally people who are of strong faith, as their views don't sit well with mine.

[emmie]

have read through that again, pretty poor show of peace loving people, those who dump their ideas on their citizens and punishing them severely if they don't acquiesce. No wonder i am against all forms of religion.

[jno]

well, it's manifestly a bad thing; the good news is, you don't actually have to tell anyone anywhere what your beliefs are if you don't want to.

[jomifl]

The lunatics are still running the asylum :-)

[emmie]

jno, if you happened to live in Saudi and were an unbeliever in Islam, how on earth do you keep that a secret, tell no one, or go along with the pack because it might just save your life.

[anotheoldgit]

em10

/// i don't feel persecuted, but i do think that forms shouldn't need a category which says religion, what business is it of any government dept or work come to that. ///

I think it is for a person's protection, in this age of PC one has to make sure that a person's beliefs are not only respected but also catered for.

[anotheoldgit]

em10

/// As to being persecuted as i said i don't feel that, but then again i try and stay away from all religious bodies, and generally people who are of strong faith, as their views don't sit well with mine. ///

And don't you think that is also a type of persecution, carried out by you against those who are not Atheists?

[anotheoldgit]

/// The report, "Freedom of Thought 2012", said "there are laws that deny atheists' right to exist, curtail their freedom of belief and expression, revoke their right to citizenship, restrict their right to marry." ///

And some in this country, cry foul if their kids are not allowed in the Scouts.

[jno]

the question was about atheists rather than non-Muslims, em. Non-Muslims who've worked there tell me there's no problem; you just stay home and keep your mouth shut. They don't drag you into mosques.

[ll_billym]

//And don't you think that is also a type of persecution, carried out by you against those who are not Atheists? //

Thanks AOG, you made me laugh there:

... //i try and stay away from all religious bodies, and generally people who are of strong faith, as their views don't sit well with mine.//

Versus..

//Other laws "obstruct their access to public education, prohibit them from holding public office, prevent them from working for the state, criminalize their criticism of religion, and execute them for leaving the religion of their parents."//

Not quite the same thing.

[sp1814]

AOG

How can em10's avoidance of those who have strong religious convictions amount to 'persecution'?

In order to persecute someone, you would have to actively abuse, mistreat or oppress someone. Can you do that by simy avoiding them?

I wouldn't think that would be possible.

As an analogy - if you worked with someone who supported Marxism and wouldn't stop banging on about it to you - you're avoidance of him/her wouldn't be persecution, would it

[ludwig]

// Non-Muslims who've worked there tell me there's no problem;
you just stay home and keep your mouth shut. //

It sounds lovely.

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

/// In order to persecute someone, you would have to actively abuse, mistreat or oppress someone. Can you do that by simy avoiding them? ///

It is very much dependant on what one considers 'persecution'

/// to make (someone) suffer, especially because of their opinions or beliefs ///

/// The inflicting of suffering, harassment, isolation, imprisonment, fear, or pain are all factors that may establish persecution. ///

Note the word 'isolation' couldn't avoiding one, thus making them feel isolated, be a form of persecution?

[sp1814]

I don't think the Saudi Arabia example quite fits:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Saudi_Arabia

[jno]

I never promised it was lovely, ludwig, but my friends seemed to find the elevated income made up for any lack of loveliness.

As I, like most people, keep silent about my beliefs, I suspect it isn't as big a problem as some proselytisers might imagine.

[shoota]

Naomi - an atheists testament is deemed unacceptable in a western court of law?
I spent 26 years giving evidence in courts from the local magistrates to the Old Bailey and always had my evidence accepted even though I always 'affirmed' rather than took an oath.

[jno]

there's slightly more to it than that, sp1814

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Saudi_Arabia

[naomi24]

Ludwig, keeping your mouth shut is the answer. No surprise there then. ;o)

AOG, Em’s decision to // try and stay away from all religious bodies, and generally people who are of strong faith,// can in no way be deemed ‘persecution’.

Shoota, from Krom’s link. //one state, Arkansas, has a law that bars an atheist from testifying as a witness at a trial//