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Given That Even Vince Cable Thinks The Eu Needs Reform...
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Leaving aside the PM's wish to "renegotiate" what reforms do you think the EU would benefit from? Would the current EU be reformable or is it now so intransigent that it's not possible?
Leaving aside the PM's wish to "renegotiate" what reforms do you think the EU would benefit from? Would the current EU be reformable or is it now so intransigent that it's not possible?
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If there was a will, then a way would be found.
The main reform is to dismantle the enormous bureaucratic machine called the Commission which has nothing better to do than interfere in our daily lives (e.g. straight bananas).
The EU should be a purely economic trade organisation, with the elected representatives being in full control, not these faceless unelected monsters.
The main reform is to dismantle the enormous bureaucratic machine called the Commission which has nothing better to do than interfere in our daily lives (e.g. straight bananas).
The EU should be a purely economic trade organisation, with the elected representatives being in full control, not these faceless unelected monsters.
Oh straight bananas - that old myth again?
Really?
Enormous - yep 27 members 1 per member state
The commission is there to execute policy in much the same way as in American government the secretaries of state, finance etc. do and aren't elected either.
Bodies can always be made better - the house of Lords would be an even better place to start - they're unelected and they pass laws!
But it would be best if those reforms came from people who actually understand how the EU works before they get on their high horse about it!
Really?
Enormous - yep 27 members 1 per member state
The commission is there to execute policy in much the same way as in American government the secretaries of state, finance etc. do and aren't elected either.
Bodies can always be made better - the house of Lords would be an even better place to start - they're unelected and they pass laws!
But it would be best if those reforms came from people who actually understand how the EU works before they get on their high horse about it!
Oh and before someone starts about the billions of european civils servants that work for the commission you might want to consider that there are roughly half as many as there are in the British civil service.
Don't think any of those are elected either!
Half the problem is that people don't see what the EU does for them - the UK government often takes the credit
There's a ton of consumer protection things
Like for example the fact that you can have your car serviced at a cheaper garage than the main dealer that sold it to you without invalidating the warrenty
Like forcing mobile phone companies to lower roaming charges so you can actually afford to use your phone abroad
Like allowing cheap airlines to operate - remember what happened to Freddie Laker when he tried?
But most importantly the EU has international clout in the way that the UK just doesn't - the EU forced George Bush to take down illegal taxes on steel - can you imagine the US doing that if it was just us whining about it?
Don't think any of those are elected either!
Half the problem is that people don't see what the EU does for them - the UK government often takes the credit
There's a ton of consumer protection things
Like for example the fact that you can have your car serviced at a cheaper garage than the main dealer that sold it to you without invalidating the warrenty
Like forcing mobile phone companies to lower roaming charges so you can actually afford to use your phone abroad
Like allowing cheap airlines to operate - remember what happened to Freddie Laker when he tried?
But most importantly the EU has international clout in the way that the UK just doesn't - the EU forced George Bush to take down illegal taxes on steel - can you imagine the US doing that if it was just us whining about it?
No it is not possible , too many people have their snouts in the trough, from the top to the bottom. You have the MEPs, their advisors and secretarial staff, the vast numbers of civil servants based in and travelling between Brussels and Strasburg, the staff required in all the home countries to support and work with those in Bru and Sal ,
the hundreds of institutions and organisations run by or through the EU.
It costs E141billion much of it siphoned off by corruption and never signed off by the auditors.
On top of that are the hundreds of thousands of recipients being paid for not using their land at all or for purposes that don't exist or are exploited.
the hundreds of institutions and organisations run by or through the EU.
It costs E141billion much of it siphoned off by corruption and never signed off by the auditors.
On top of that are the hundreds of thousands of recipients being paid for not using their land at all or for purposes that don't exist or are exploited.
The EU will never reform, to many snouts in the trough.
We dont need it to reform, we just need trade agreements (as we started in the first place.
Jake, depsite you 'oh yes stragght banans' The EU has introduced bucket loads of red tape and regulations (Granted some are usefull but far maore are not). In the last estimation 2007, it was estimated the EU costs us around 635Bn taking all the extra's into account.
We dont need it to reform, we just need trade agreements (as we started in the first place.
Jake, depsite you 'oh yes stragght banans' The EU has introduced bucket loads of red tape and regulations (Granted some are usefull but far maore are not). In the last estimation 2007, it was estimated the EU costs us around 635Bn taking all the extra's into account.
“The commission is there to execute policy in much the same way as in American government the secretaries of state, finance etc. do and aren't elected either. “
The difference is, jake, that the US has an elected president, senate and house of representatives, all of whom have powers to regulate the activities of the various officials. The EU does not. The “MEPs” that are elected have virtually no say in the policies or activities of the Commission and your comparison is disingenuous. A similar argument prevails for the UK civil servants whom you also mention.
“the house of Lords would be an even better place to start - they're unelected and they pass laws! “
It depends on your terminology. The Lords have the power to return Bills to the Commons for amendment or to refuse to endorse them but have no powers to introduce legislation for consideration. Ultimately their refusal to endorse bills can be overcome by using the Parliament Act which confirms the supremacy of the Commons. So I would suggest it is misleading to say they “pass laws”.
But to return to the question. The EU in its current form is not reformable. Its grandees have designs on “ever closer integration” and will not rest until their dream of a single European Federal State is realised. It will suffer no reforms which will deviate from this path and anybody (Mr Cameron particularly) who believes that the UK will be able to negotiate a “repatriation of powers” is sadly deluded. But more importantly he is fooling the electorate into believing this is an option. The choice is simple for all EU nations: are you in (which will include “ever closer integration”) or are you out? That is a choice which the electorate should make. Those who argue that the voters are too ignorant to make such a decision should consider this: any organisation which seeks to subjugate its members by being “too complex” for them to understand should really ask themselves what it is they are trying to hide. Lawyers often have to make extremely complex laws easily understood by members of a jury. They manage this quite well and so should those arguing for greater European integration.
The difference is, jake, that the US has an elected president, senate and house of representatives, all of whom have powers to regulate the activities of the various officials. The EU does not. The “MEPs” that are elected have virtually no say in the policies or activities of the Commission and your comparison is disingenuous. A similar argument prevails for the UK civil servants whom you also mention.
“the house of Lords would be an even better place to start - they're unelected and they pass laws! “
It depends on your terminology. The Lords have the power to return Bills to the Commons for amendment or to refuse to endorse them but have no powers to introduce legislation for consideration. Ultimately their refusal to endorse bills can be overcome by using the Parliament Act which confirms the supremacy of the Commons. So I would suggest it is misleading to say they “pass laws”.
But to return to the question. The EU in its current form is not reformable. Its grandees have designs on “ever closer integration” and will not rest until their dream of a single European Federal State is realised. It will suffer no reforms which will deviate from this path and anybody (Mr Cameron particularly) who believes that the UK will be able to negotiate a “repatriation of powers” is sadly deluded. But more importantly he is fooling the electorate into believing this is an option. The choice is simple for all EU nations: are you in (which will include “ever closer integration”) or are you out? That is a choice which the electorate should make. Those who argue that the voters are too ignorant to make such a decision should consider this: any organisation which seeks to subjugate its members by being “too complex” for them to understand should really ask themselves what it is they are trying to hide. Lawyers often have to make extremely complex laws easily understood by members of a jury. They manage this quite well and so should those arguing for greater European integration.
must admit NJ, couldn't have put that better myself, i do think that this has been coming a long time, that we will have a federalised European superstate, whether Britain likes it or not, no matter who is our PM.
Milliband bleating on the news this morning about Cameron's inability to make clear what he has to offer in regards to Europe, before the man has had a chance to make the speech, we will see tomorrow.
Cameron's speech will be interesting as to whether we get a referendum or not. If not then bye bye Britain, because those suits in Brussels will have their way, and you won't be getting any concessions, nor indeed claw back any powers, that will be us told. Next stop join the Euro.
Milliband bleating on the news this morning about Cameron's inability to make clear what he has to offer in regards to Europe, before the man has had a chance to make the speech, we will see tomorrow.
Cameron's speech will be interesting as to whether we get a referendum or not. If not then bye bye Britain, because those suits in Brussels will have their way, and you won't be getting any concessions, nor indeed claw back any powers, that will be us told. Next stop join the Euro.
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