E U

[BlueToffee]

After DC's speech this morning, IN or OUT?

[jake-the-peg]

I think NJ to continue the analogy we joined a football club that decided to become a snooker club - *and we agreed*

Margaret Thatcher agreed the change and now everybody in the Tory party pretends that their hero is in no way responsible for signing the Single European act

[craft1948]

Do you think any businesses will locate to France given their extortionate tax rates?

[modeller]

I thought Ed.M did rather well at PMs question time.
D.C Did his usual waffle.

[DangerUXD]

The further the analogy we reluctantly went along with changing to a snooker club but we have since found out that we must always pay for the light and only we must obey the rules whilst the other players obey the ones they like whilst making up ever more ridiculous ones for us!

I don't think UKIP core support will evaporate but I do think that dissafected Tories will be disuaded from joining them.

[youngmafbog]

10 years of EU sucking up from Blair who probably did it because he thought he would be president (only to be beaten by Rumpy pumpy) are what is wrong. Blair, and bottler, signed away much of our sovereignty.

I dont think anyone in their right mind has a problem with a common market. That is what was voted in. Europen Union, which must eventually mean all countries sovereignty stripped or it will never work, is another thing.

The French will welcome business, I'm sure they would but me thinkls they wont get the opportunity. Firms may go to another EU country but it wont be France. Why would they go to a country of high taxes and many strikes.

[Zeuhl]

Whilst there are a great many issues to consider, I think it is important to reflect on one that is often overlooked.

68 Years.

That's the longest period in history when Europeans haven't been killing each other en masse.

It might be argued that Germany has just found another way to take over, but perhaps we should compare the costs of EU membership with the cost to the British people of the first two instalments; WW1 and WW2

and focus on our best strategies for 'winning' this one.

[emmie]

good thing you added en masse, that hasn't stopped conflicts, and as far as i can see there could still be European wars, just because the French poodle is cosying up to the German shepherd dog, doesn't mean to say they will stay that way. As to the fact of France welcoming any UK businesses if we chose to leave, would they really do that with the current incumbent in office, Monsieur Hollande, who seems hell bent on making his people pay through the nose for daring to earn a decent living.

[New Judge]

Yes you’re quite right jake.

I draw no party lines over this issue. Successive governments, from Heath onwards, of both colours have deceived the electorate over the true purpose and ultimate aims of the “European Project”. They’ve either been deceitful or incredibly stupid.

There is now widespread opinion across supporters of all parties that membership the EU in its current form (and with its current plans) is not in the UK’s best interests. Of course any politician worth his salt (and who supposedly embraces “democracy” as Mr Cameron is continually telling the rest of the world that he does) would simply hold an “in or out” referendum now and settle the matter once and for all. (Of course we’d have to resist the EU telling us to vote again if the vote produced the wrong answer, but I’m sure we could manage that). This would surely be the simplest, most honest and most effective way. But we don’t have any politicians worth their salt .

PS. Please Zeuhl, not the old “Peace in our Time” argument. The effect that the euro is having on some of the poorer states is leading to more unrest and disharmony than just about anything in recent history. Then of course there is always the question “do you wish for peace at any price?”

[Old_Geezer]

No referendum = no agreement to play snooker.

Modern day democracy is a farce, and many, possibly most, fear it ever being. They don't trust their fellow citizens with the power to express their opinion and have it count.

[Zeuhl]

NJ

I suspect your derision for peaceful co existence is due to the fact that you would avoid active involvement in any major conflict

/peace at any price/?

was the expenditure of almost all UK overseas assets, the death-blow for the British Empire and this country's economy by WW2 an intelligent price to pay?

[modeller]

The point is'; Why wait till after the election ?

Why not start now ! That would show what our chances are of a reform are.

If he achieved a modicum of success now, we might believe in further success down the line. We don't have to wait until the EU financial problems are over. There are plenty of issues which could be tackled now.

[DangerUXD]

it wasn't a choice zeuhl. Are you suggesting we should have done what the French did?

[TheHangman]

Common market? I remember the grain mountains and butter mountains when excess was sold off to Russia at rock bottom prices while we payed top whack. It was the Tories that signed us up to this mess now they want to do yet another U-turn and yes they did promise a referendum at the last election and broke that promise. The EU might be a nice little club for its members but only at the expense of its citizens.

[Zeuhl]

/it wasn't a choice zeuhl. Are you suggesting we should have done what the French did? /

No Danger

I'm suggesting that for 68 years, we have not faced anything like a similar situation involving a european power struggle that caused so much 'expense' several times over in the preceding 75 years.

If the EU has played any part in it, we should consider the value of that.

[DangerUXD]

Hangman makes a good point, the CAP, ie the lets help out innefecient French farmers, is one huge area that needs reform. It is top to bottom with huge folly.