Yet Another Vicious Killing On The Strets Of London, What Is The Answer?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2269341/Pimlico-stabbing-Teenager-16-heard-screaming-life-killed-sword-wielding-gang.html

/// A 58-year-old local resident said there had been two murders in nearby Gloucester Street in recent years and a stabbing of a boy outside a row of shops in Lupus Street before Christmas. ///

/// 'The violence that has started to occur around here is something else, it is frightening for all the residents,' she said. ///

/// 'You used to be able to walk around at night but I am starting to be very wary, especially at night-time.' ///

Such murders are becoming continuous more endemic on our streets, what measures should be taken to protect the peace loving citizens of this country?

[jake-the-peg]

Nice to see you using data AOG

Let me add to it to bring it up to date:

2010: 123
2011: 121
2012: 89

I think we can see from this that when you said that such crimes were more endemic that was incorrect - that the situation is in fact getting better

Should we worry? - No I don't think we should
Should we be complacent? - No we shouldn't either

- Last year was a bit of a sudden drop and with everything going on in London it might be an outlier and be up to about 120 this year

I won't even bother to answer the silly "you wouldn't say that if it happened to you" point - you're getting desperate if that's the best you can do

[sp1814]

As of March 2011, London's official population was 8.1million. Not sure where 13million came from...I wonder whether that figure includes those who live outsid Greater London, but commute in every day??

[Zeuhl]

/I wonder if one of yours was murdered on the streets of London .../

'if one of yours was ..' is a pretty silly argument but somewhat inevitable for those whose argument isn't supported by the facts.

[anotheoldgit]

FredPuli43

/// "Excuse" is your choice of word,aog. How is it an "excuse" if the police say that there are fewer murders? What is it an excuse
for? ///

An excuse for the killing ie. "Yes sorry he is dead, but killings in London are an all time low you know"

Look up the word Excuse - "to explain in the hope of being forgiven".

I wonder what your 'excuse will be'?

[anotheoldgit]

Davethedog

/// AOG bit lost here your stats are from 13 years ago?
Relevance? ///

I was using the period around the Stephen Lawrence murder.

The 1990's Laurence was murdered in 1993.

Need I explain further, some of you don't seem to cotton on to things it seems.

[Zeuhl]

So the number of murders is down to 89 from a high of 190 in 1990

Perhaps aog can explain why saving 101 lives is just 'an excuse'

[Zeuhl]

/some of you don't seem to cotton on to things it seems. /

blaming the audience for not 'cottoning on' is just 'an excuse' used by poor communicators.

[anotheoldgit]

/// I won't even bother to answer the silly "you wouldn't say that if it happened to you" point - you're getting desperate if that's the best you can do ///

Not in the least, are figures so important when a person is killed?

[Zeuhl]

/are figures so important when a person is killed? /

Not if you think it doesn't matter whether 190 are killed - or 89

[emmie]

sp, which is what i said, must include outer London.

[anotheoldgit]

triggerhippy

/// Sometimes AOG I have to read your threads from behind a pillow such is the cringe factor. Honestly it is worse than watching an episode of Glee.///

It surprises me that you can read at all, not taking into account you admission of reading my threads from behind a pillow which I would have thought would be very difficult unless of course it was transparent.

But then who knows what some will get up to at such an obvious early age.

[sp1814]

AOG

In your original post, you wrote:

"Such murders are becoming continuous more endemic on our streets".

I think what people are trying to point out is that despite appearances to the contrary, such murders are actually falling, from a high of a few years ago.

However, I've only skimmed this thread, so I may have missed a key element to your argument.

But leaving the maths aside for a moment (we don't want to get into another 'most means more than 50%' cycle), what are your thoughts on the subject you've raised? What measures would you like implemented?

[Zeuhl]

Here we go:

the sadly predictable descent into personal abuse

/some of you don't seem to cotton on to things it seems. /

/It surprises me that you can read at all/

/who knows what some will get up to at such an obvious early age./

[emmie]

i want to see those who carry knives on the street and are caught go to prison for 5 years. Those who kill with a knife go to prison for life, same for gun death crime. Perhaps they could also tackle quite why the young are joining gangs, if it's drug related which many seem to be, then stamp down on that wherever it occurs. Our borough has a high incidence of drug related crime, the police i am sure do their best but sometimes you have to up the game..

[FredPuli43]

No,aog, I, for one, have no need of dictionaries to define 'excuse'. Perhaps you will enlighten me by answering my question. How is it an 'excuse', by your definition,for which you used a dictionary, to say that the number of murders is lower? If the murders numbered just one, how would it be an excuse to say that it was not zero ? By the same token, how is it an excuse to say that it is down from any number? What are the police excusing ?

[sp1814]

Actually, this has been mentioned earlier in this thread, and it's got me thinking. There does seem to be fewer of these stabbing stories in the papers lately.

Perhaps it's my imagination (and the fact that last year was so stuffed full of positive stories).

AOG - you could actually help us out here. You have very rightly posted a question on the News section of AB practically every time there's been a stabbing or gun murder (especially in London).

Could you have a quick look back over your posts through 2012 to see how many you raised, asking "what can be done" etc, and compare it to the number you raised in 2011, asking "what can be done" etc.

Perhaps not exactly mathematically rigorous, but at least it would give us a guide as to any perceived increase/decrease.

[FredPuli43]

^" not two" not "not zero" ^

[sp1814]

em10

Five years. Coincidentally that's the term I suggested the last time There was a thread on knife crime.

However I've been subsequently told that gangs often make younger members 'carry tools' because they are under the age of legal responsibility.