Do We Need A High Speed Train?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2269401/HS2-route-London-Manchester-train-hour-20-years.html

/// London to Manchester by train in one hour (in 20 years): ///

One hour in 20 years time, may be crawling along.

[FredPuli43]

Quite em, but who does use the tunnel and walkways to cross from one to the other? They are on opposite sides of the same road and the glamorous, new, entrance to St Pancras is directly opposite the new, glamorous, entrance to King's Cross.

[youngmafbog]

We need to improve infrastructure, and we hear the lefties on here calling for money to be spent on it, then when they government do so they are slated. Presumably many of the lefties on here are NIMBY's.

Judging by the comments on here no one has done any serious commuting. If you had you would realize and appreciate the difference. I live 100 miles from London but SWT take 1 hour 50 at best.

Having a city within commutable limits will bring wealth from the City and consequently other jobs. It is not easy to quantify but it does happen. We need people to consider the North as a good place to live but at present it is simply not feasible.

I do agree with Jake on the Goods though. I find it very frustrating we dont make more use of the rail for freight, but then that was down to the good old Unions in the 70's holding everyone for ransom with continual strikes (Much like Europe is today)

[Zeuhl]

/would have to be a very large moving platform, pavement, seeing the distance between St Pancras and Euston stations./

Not really em

They are about 1200 feet apart as the crow flies
Many airports have moving platforms that length and beyond albeit in sections with short gaps in between.

[LazyGun]

@youngmaf "We need to improve infrastructure, and we hear the lefties on here calling for money to be spent on it, then when they government do so they are slated. Presumably many of the lefties on here are NIMBY's.

Judging by the comments on here no one has done any serious commuting. If you had you would realize and appreciate the difference. I live 100 miles from London but SWT take 1 hour 50 at best"

Somewhat incoherent, as usual. The usual rant, and one that makes even less sense than usual. I do serious commuting - have done for years. I am a lefty, but support the idea of HS2 and would not slate the government for investing in it. In fact, it would seem, based upon the projected rail route and the MPs complaining, that the NIMBYs here are -quelle surprise - rather affluent tories,,

[emmie]

those who use the underground, you come off one underground line at KX, ,and need to get over to St Pancras, there is a bloody long walkway, i know i have done it, it supposed to save time but doesn't really. Especially if you are dragging your luggage from one to the other. It's all changed as well at KX, because they are finally dismantling the awful green awning, and will put a new concourse out front, so KX will most definitely look better in time.

[emmie]

zeuhl, do you know both Euston and St Pancras stations? 1200 feet, are you sure.

[Zeuhl]

/I live 100 miles from London but SWT take 1 hour 50 at best./

apart from the obvious fact that HS2 is no use to you, are you saying that an equivalent several billion or so spent in your region would be best spent knocking 20 mins off the journey?
or making it more frequent?
more comfortable?
more reliable?
or easier to do your work on?

Also you assume that improved links will revitalise the north when /people (to) consider the North as a good place to live /

Experience in other parts of europe suggest it does the opposite as business declines in outlying areas as people realise doing business in the Primary centre is easier
more affordable

[emmie]

according to my calculations if it is definitely quarter of a mile from Euston to St Pacras that is 1320 ft. even so, that is a long walkway, imagine the costs as well.

[McMouse]

I travelled to Rome by Eurostar and TGV. Had to change at Paris Nord and get to Gare de Lyon........less than 10 minutes on RER (only two stops). I find in a great way to travel and certainly beats fluffing around in airport terminals. I support a UK high speed network but something has to be done about the ridiculously high fares.

[Zeuhl]

zeuhl, do you know both Euston and St Pancras stations? 1200 feet, are you sure. /

Yes em

check Google maps - the edges of each station are only 1200 feet apart

[jake-the-peg]

Another quick point

Does anybody here think it'll actually come in on budget?

[emmie]

HS2 would be no use to many who live in and around Euston, at least not those who stand to lose their homes. This is an run down urban area, what is needs is regeneration, more homes and businesses, not some mega station link costing billions. They are already building a much opposed super lab, near the British Library, on land that could have been used for the many who are waiting to be housed in Camden.

[Zeuhl]

/imagine the costs as well./

Well it appears that the quoted £30 billion doesn't include lots of things!

It appears George was so impressed by a ride on the Japanese Bullet Train several years ago he decided we should have one. Now the Departments are spinning nonsense figures to try and justify it.

I'm all for infrastructure investment but let's spend it on things that are useful, effective and beneficial

[emmie]

if it gets built it shouldn't go from Euston, most definitely the wrong station.

[pdq1]

How else could you expect MPs travelling home for their 3 or 4 day week-end and feeling refreshed at taxpayers expense. Not the normal price of a train fare but a surcharge on top so obviously designed for the wealthy. The numbers of homes affected along the route would put the blitz to shame. The £32+bn to build it would have provided many more motorways that all of us could use.

[LeMarchand]

Like someone said, the only people who will be able to afford this will be MPs and members of the 1%.

Jobs for the country? Don't make me laugh - I'll bet most of it goes abroad (cheaper) and if it stays in the UK it'll be to party supporters. Osborne trotted out the "Victorian" thing on the news this morning. AFAIK the original investment was private, whereas this plan seems to be "get the taxpayer to pay to subsidise whichever of my mates puts the most in my back pocket".

Yes, the Tories would like a return to a Victorian world: the rich were rich and the poor had nothing, and if they didn't/couldn't work then they starved or were sent to the poor house.

[emmie]

wasn't all tories though was it, some good hearted philanthropists amongst them, many who made a difference, made many people's lives better, health care wasn't just a new thing invented by the Labour party.

[craft1948]

Train time from York to London is about 1 hour 45 mins and that's 200 miles. SWT must be slow...................

[emmie]

http://www.philanthrocapitalism.net/bonus-chapters/victorian-giving/

[jake-the-peg]

No Em you're perfectly right

The value of this seems to have convinced almost all of the politicians of all political persuasions

It's completely beyond me why - it's not as if it's going to be a vote winner - especially in the Tory shires - I had rather expected it to fall under Osbourne's axe