Hs2; A "living Nightmare" Or "not In My Backyard"?

[Khandro]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/9833353/Cheryl-Gillan-HS2-is-a-living-nightmare.html

[magsmay]

Its every bit to do with falling property values . I would be a NIMBY if they put a train line at the bottom of my garden without any compensation and it knocked £100k off my property value. The government just needs to fork out more money to pay off the NIMBY'S and all will be well.......maybe ;-)

[douglas9401]

I heard a government spokesman last night say, among other things, "other countries have this so we must have it too".
Who could argue against such a well formed position.
Seems more like a make-work vanity project in these days of video conferencing.

[mushroom25]

douglas, whilst not advocating HS2, have you been involved in video or teleconferencing? it's not the universal answer to business's prayers in terms of cutting down meetings - in a lot of instances, it's just not effective in reaching decisions.

[VHG]

I wonder how many people who complain about the railway coming near their house are happy to drive up and down the various motorways in this country.

When built these motorways went through countryside and green belt land, and often near (or through) people's houses.

And it seems to me it makes more sense to have hundreds of people in a single train than 100s of extra cars on motorways.

[andy-hughes]

I don't really buy the government's 'vision' for a vitalised north, and the end to the 'north/south' divide - that is a matter of cultural attitudes, not geography, and linking the two areas together by train will not alter that.

Similarly, I don;t think the the much trumpted shorter journey times will make that much difference. i use the WCML to go to london, and in my lifetime they have shaved over thirty minutes off the journey time - and i can honestly say that has not made a jot of differencec - although I am an occasional user rather than a bsuiness commuter.

A 'nay sayer' on the radio yesterday advised that the current WCML trains are only 52% utilised, which is entirely due to the timetabliong and fare structures - adjustments of both would eliminate the immagined need for this new line.

And finally - beware of any government looking further ahead than a year when costs are involved. let's learn our lessons from the original WCML upgrade, together with the Dome, and The Olympics - all of which soared out of sight from their original budgets.

Factor in the sheer length of time involved - and the government's and rail companies' lamentable inability to run anything approaching a proper rail service so far, and this has 'disaster' written all over it.

[McMouse]

We Brits thought the Germans were crazy to build the Autobahn system in the 1930's, the French were mad to construct the TGV network, the Swiss and Italians to bore road and rail tunnels through the Alps. I suspect the Romans were considered stupid to build straight roads all over England. The septics even put men on the moon. Nimby's rule, OK!

[tonyav]

Very well put andy, and I totally agree.

[douglas9401]

Imagine the Edinburgh tram "system" multiplied by the 'talents' of Westminster politicians and officials.
You see? You can't, can you? It's more than he human brain can comprehend.

Oh, and I thought we were skint.

[Sqad]

Well put McMouse and i totally agree.

[jake-the-peg]

Thing is McMouse you're not looking at the cost

Yeah we'll all have a high speed train network, and gold plated streets too if it's free

It is free isn't it?

It's *predicted* to cost every man woman and child in this country £500 and may cost a lot more

The TGV is very good - it should be - they pour huge public subsidy into it - it's now owned 100% by the French Government

Ours will not and will have to make a profit - that means the ticket prices will be expensive.


I just think we could find better things to spend 32 Billion quid on

[McMouse]

//I just think we could find better things to spend 32 Billion quid on//
Well we could always invade another country and waste the lives of hundreds of out young and condemn thousands of other to a life without limbs.

[Khandro]

I amuse myself envisaging a protesting couple in leafy Bucks, sipping their pre-dinner sherries while watching Michael Portillo, Bradshaw's in hand, extolling (quite rightly) the magnificent achievements of Victorian engineers; the astonishing viaducts, bridges, tunnels and station roof spans, some of which now even have preservation orders on them.
After dinner they get out the brochures and plan a late-winter holiday which will necessitate them travelling by road, rail and air to some foreign country and in doing so passing within earshot of countless thousands of non-complaining folk. It's a rum old world.

[emmie]

no, it will affect many, won't be the saviour the coalition thinks it will be, and as i have mentioned before on another thread, many who live around the euston area will be shoved out, their homes demolished, and compensation isn't necessarily going to be on the cards, nor indeed homes to replace the ones they will lose. The head of Camden Council was on tv yesterday saying pretty much the same thing. That is without the businesses that will also go west.

[Khandro]

em10; //compensation isn't necessarily going to be on the cards, nor indeed homes to replace the ones they will lose. The head of Camden Council was on tv yesterday saying pretty much the same thing.//
Well he would say that, wouldn't he? Is he suggesting that houses will be torn down and residents put out on the streets without compensation?

[mushroom25]

if this is to be believed
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2269401/HS2-route-London-Manchester-train-hour-20-years.html
relieving residents of their property without any recompense may well come to pass.

[emmie]

khandro, yes i am. the leader of the council is currently opposing this, as are many residents obviously. The proposal before was to tear down the old Temperance Hospital and build new homes for those displaced, however that plans seem to have been shelved.

[Khandro]

mushroom; It seems like a usual Daily Mail, 'shock horror' piece. The real story is nothing more than that the couple who want to buy the property, like many others today, simply can't get a mortgage.

[emmie]

no it's not a scare story. If you want to have a look at what is happening, access Camden council and type in Hs2, you will get loads and loads of info. Much of it is pretty unpleasant, the situation with the residents and businesses is not a good one, and the leader Sarah Haywood has said so any number of times. There has been much backtracking, obfuscation by Hs2, whilst leaving the tenants in a state of total uncertainty over their homes, or indeed where they will be relocated, if at all. This hasn't just happened, it's been going on for an age

[mushroom25]

//It seems like a usual Daily Mail, 'shock horror' piece//
possibly. but you have to agree it would be pretty convenient for the govermnment, having promised adequate and commensurate compensation, to find that the affected properties were all zero rated.

[emmie]

so you pay them diddly squat.