Working For Free Proves Unlawful.

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2277426/Iain-Duncan-Smith-condemns-Poundland-benefits-ruling-opens-40m-floodgate.html#axzz2KhbgXRat

Doesn't the Government consult their legal teams before introducing certain measures?

[modeller]

Companies have been doing this for years . Tesco did it just before Christmas last year. It saved them paying for Christmas labour.

I know a company who got rid of their paid employies and then took on internies , who worked for nothing.

The only diffence now is its done with the government's blessing. W

[factor-fiction]

No-one will ever change their minds on these issues I know.

>Working for free should be unlawful. It stops someone doing it as their paid employment and they stay on benefits.

I don't understand that, Old-Geezer. Maybe the firm who takes on someone under the scheme wouldn't have taken anyone on at the margin if they'd had to pay the going rate.

I'm surprised the minimum wage hasn't been raised as an issue.

[FredPuli43]

Steady on Baldric! Ex-pats, in my experience, care more, and more vociferously, about this country than we do. That's why they don't live here.

And anyway, living outside the UK may be simply temporary and not some settled emigration and change of domicil.

[TheHangman]

When I left school will out much effort I found myself with the choice of five jobs. I changed jobs several times with ease before becoming self employed. now there are 200 people applying for one vacancy, I wouldn't stand a chance. The government have come up with a scheme where as work that requires doing is done by people who don't actually get paid for doing the work. If there employment available at Poundland, Poundland should employ someone and pay them. If the government insist people work in such positions on a part time basis as work experience then the government should ensure that appropriate payment is achieved and make some reduction in benefit but not to the same sum. You can hardly expect young people to work and see no benefit from their labour and expect them to see the benefits of full employment. If they work under what ever conditions there should be some reward. I might add her volunteer work at the museum should be taken into consideration it is after all job seekers allowance and whilst at the museum she cannot be seeking work.

[factor-fiction]

In my experience many of the people being offered a chance under these schemes are people who, because they have been out of work for a while, would not be attractive to employers- that's a key reason why they can't find paid work. Employers would normally appoint if the person meets their requirements and may choose to wait until they find a good candidate.They wouldn't normally consider taking on someone who didn't want to be there. Under this scheme the 'free labour' may mean they take someone on to at the margin that they wouldn't otherwise have taken on. At least a scheme like this allows jobseekers to get their foot in the door, get some experience of work and something they can use to sell themselves to other employers.

[LazyGun]

I would fundamentally disagree.

I think several companies would have jumped at the chance to save on costs and take on free labour, thus boosting their profits. I seriously doubt that the level of time involved in supervision and training for what these jobs appear to be, which is menial labour, is very great.

A never ending supply of temporary free labour - manna from heaven.

I would disagree with Baz on just about everything, but not on this. If there is a job available, those doing it should be paid at the mininum wage by the company concerned. If the government wishes to use taxpayers money to subsidise such schemes, let them recompense the company on receipt of satisfactory returns showing that the unemployed person taken on has benefited from the experience by having recieved some training etc.

[honeydip]

@ baldrick

I am still paying my uk taxes. Income tax, council tax, water rates.

And what am I getting back?? Nothing. While I am here the stupid uk will not even pay for the birth of our baby. We have to pay nearly 5 k for it. A lot of good the uk is to me!!!!!'

[factor-fiction]

I think there is a misunderstanding, LazyGun.
I'm not saying some firms won't jump at the chance of free labour- I'm just saying that if they had to pay the going rate for the job they almost certainly wouldn't take someone on who didn't fully meet their requirements and may not even have taken anyone on at all (since many firms are cutting back)

And regarding your point "If the government wishes to use taxpayers money to subsidise such schemes, let them recompense the company on receipt of satisfactory returns showing that the unemployed person taken on has benefited from the experience by having received some training etc.". I agree that this should happen. But as for 'subsiding', wasn't the taxpayers already paying the unemployment benefits?.

[LazyGun]

@factor 30. Yes, the government and therefore the taxpayer are paying unemployment benefits. It should be viewed as a form of insurance - that if you are laid off, or unable to find work immediately when you leave school, that you have a safety net to cover basic needs.

I do not believe that the taxpayer should be subsidising corporate profits...

Once upon a time workers who were in receipt of the dole were expected to labour for this largesse - often by performing completely useless tasks like digging out holes and then filling them in again. The Victorians shoved them all into poorhouses or workhouses. Mandatory labour schemes for the unemployed has the flavour of those sort of programmes to me...

[factor-fiction]

Surely voluntary work should be banned too...

[douglas9401]

Can't you get a newly qualified midwife or doctor to help out free honeydip?
Great experience for them while they're waiting to hear from Euromart about arranging les party poppers n serviettes.

[LazyGun]

@factor 30 - Sorry, comprehension fail - I do not understand your last point - please expand?

[factor-fiction]

Do you mean my comment "Surely voluntary work should be banned too."

I'm asking whether, if there's work that needs doing, we should insist that that those doing unpaid as volunteers should get paid the going rate for a shop worker, care worker, etc

[DaisyNonna]

How does doing voluntary work preclude one applying for jobs?

[Baldric]

////While I am here the stupid uk will not even pay for the birth of our baby. We have to pay nearly 5 k for it.////

Gimme Gimme Gimme! remind me again whose baby it is,
You'll be wanting child support next!

[LazyGun]

Volunteering for a job to gain experience, or working in a voluntary position in a not-for-profit institution is a very different proposition than the government offering free labour to corporations with a coercive or mandatory element to it.

[TheHangman]

I believe job seekers allowance requires that you are available for work Monday to Friday. If you are volunteering to work somewhere during that period then you are not available for work. I know its a bit on the cruel side but if it is the rule then its the rule. (Personally I applaud the girl for going and doing something useful) I am just saying it is I believe it is the rule, but by the same token she should benefit from any work that she is forced to undertake.

[honeydip]

I pay uk tax and national insurance I should be entitled to it. Even your parents didn't have to pay for your birth baldrick. I have paid taxes all my life. I'm should be entitled to it.
Anyway Saying that it sounds like you are trying to wind me up. Maybe you are bored.

[LazyGun]

Not an expert in this area at all - but i think the amount of benefit you receive is adjusted if you are working in any capacity during the working week, for that very reason Hangman.

[modeller]

There are hundreds of back street training companies who are paid to train people and get a further payment for anyone who gets a job.

My daughter went to one and there were bench vices , woodwork tools.
attached to the walls. She was given some paper and card to design birthday cards . The sort of things you do in primary school .
A couple of days later a government inspector turned up , looked at the tools , had a chat and a coffee with the , ' instructor ' never spoke to any of the workseekers and left.
The following day a van from a hardware shop, turned up and took away all the pristine tools which had been borrowed from them, a couple of days before the inspection.

Apart from a few birthday cards that's all the training my daughter got.

She complained and told the job centre what had happened and they said :
" Oh yes we have had many complaints about that company . "

A month later my daughter had a telephone call from the company asked her if she had had a job , if only for a day.