Crosswords2 mins ago
When Will We Be 'tough Enough'?
74 Answers
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Apparently our wise and trusted Premier has only just discovered that Foreigners are taking advantage of our NHS, but at the moment we are not 'tough enough' right now to prevent them from doing so.
/// Speaking to workers at B&Q in Eastleigh, Mr Cameron said the health service should not be free for foreigners from outside the EU. Britain must also get better at charging other EU countries when their citizens use the NHS, he added. ///
All very well him saying that, but isn't it him who holds the power to put an end to such things, I wonder why he hasn't already?
I wonder why he had popped into B&Q?
/// Mr Cameron this week launched a review into how foreigners access benefits.On a visit to support the Conservative Eastleigh by-election campaign, he said this review will look at all welfare payments and services, including health, housing and legal aid as well as traditional benefits. ///
Yes but I bet the foreigners will not be at the top of the list of cuts, it will be aimed at the less fortunate amongst our own citizens.
Apparently our wise and trusted Premier has only just discovered that Foreigners are taking advantage of our NHS, but at the moment we are not 'tough enough' right now to prevent them from doing so.
/// Speaking to workers at B&Q in Eastleigh, Mr Cameron said the health service should not be free for foreigners from outside the EU. Britain must also get better at charging other EU countries when their citizens use the NHS, he added. ///
All very well him saying that, but isn't it him who holds the power to put an end to such things, I wonder why he hasn't already?
I wonder why he had popped into B&Q?
/// Mr Cameron this week launched a review into how foreigners access benefits.On a visit to support the Conservative Eastleigh by-election campaign, he said this review will look at all welfare payments and services, including health, housing and legal aid as well as traditional benefits. ///
Yes but I bet the foreigners will not be at the top of the list of cuts, it will be aimed at the less fortunate amongst our own citizens.
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/// A recent survey carried out by Pulse magazine has found 52 per cent of GPs thought NHS entitlements for migrants were too generous, while only seven per cent thought they were too stringent. ///
The PM is concerned, the Doctors are concerned, and the Department of Health are concerned.
But JTP says there is nothing to be concerned about, so I suppose we should all now stop showing any concern whatsoever.
The PM is concerned, the Doctors are concerned, and the Department of Health are concerned.
But JTP says there is nothing to be concerned about, so I suppose we should all now stop showing any concern whatsoever.
i know this is only one case, but sure could find links to lots more, if you don't pay why should you get treated. The NHS wasn't set up for freeloaders.
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I wonder if the sheer admin costs involved in setting up a service within the NHS to track down, monitor, chase payment and bank payment would actually be more than the money you'd get back doing it.
It's all very well saying these things and everyone getting on their soap box, but I imagine if/when the goverment introduces a new department set up to sort out this problem costing 'X' amoutn of money, if people won't also be shouting about another level of unnecessary admin/beurocracy/management within the NHS.
Just a thought. I'm not actually for or against such a department.
It's all very well saying these things and everyone getting on their soap box, but I imagine if/when the goverment introduces a new department set up to sort out this problem costing 'X' amoutn of money, if people won't also be shouting about another level of unnecessary admin/beurocracy/management within the NHS.
Just a thought. I'm not actually for or against such a department.
Have you lived there? ask the people who live there what type of people they require there, they do not want spongers, rapists, muggers, thieves, pedos, Killers, These are checked before hand, what they do want is decent trades persons, why do you think the pearly gates & a sign on the French port saying "This Way to the UK, the gates are open.
This is going to be very difficult for some to swallow...but the numbers we've been supplied are...rubbish.
It's always best to check newspaper articles against follow-up data in fullfact.org.
This is the truth (please don't read any further if you want to cling to the idea that foreigners are screwing the NHS out of £40million).
[i]The data behind the figures in the articles has been taken from a series of Freedom of Information Requests made by Pulse magazine.
By calculating the average unpaid debt across the trusts and applying this across England as a whole,they were able to arrive at an estimate of the sums likely to be owed to all trusts nationwide.
24 trusts with comparable data had total outstanding debts of £5,688,446 - or around £237,000 on average. Extrpolating this to the whole of England takes us to a very rough estimate of £40 million total money owed to all the 168 trusts.
It is important to note that the numbers quoted in the media all refer to the 'outstanding' fees: sums yet to be paid by relevant parties for care of foreign patients. However, this is not necessarily the same value as the amount the Government no longer anticipates being able to recover, which they classify as “written off”. Whether this is "free" treatment, as some of the papers claimed, is therefore a moot point.
The Pulse data records total written off debts of just over £365,000 since April 2009, which amounts to over £2.5 million when extrapolated across England.
The data collected by Pulse covers foreign nationals of all types, including migrants that have settled here.[i]
So the next time we read about Nigerian women coming here to have their babies, pause for a moment and ask yourself, "Am I getting the full picture...or simply a tiny bit of the picture, driven by the narrative of the publication I'm reading?"
It's always best to check newspaper articles against follow-up data in fullfact.org.
This is the truth (please don't read any further if you want to cling to the idea that foreigners are screwing the NHS out of £40million).
[i]The data behind the figures in the articles has been taken from a series of Freedom of Information Requests made by Pulse magazine.
By calculating the average unpaid debt across the trusts and applying this across England as a whole,they were able to arrive at an estimate of the sums likely to be owed to all trusts nationwide.
24 trusts with comparable data had total outstanding debts of £5,688,446 - or around £237,000 on average. Extrpolating this to the whole of England takes us to a very rough estimate of £40 million total money owed to all the 168 trusts.
It is important to note that the numbers quoted in the media all refer to the 'outstanding' fees: sums yet to be paid by relevant parties for care of foreign patients. However, this is not necessarily the same value as the amount the Government no longer anticipates being able to recover, which they classify as “written off”. Whether this is "free" treatment, as some of the papers claimed, is therefore a moot point.
The Pulse data records total written off debts of just over £365,000 since April 2009, which amounts to over £2.5 million when extrapolated across England.
The data collected by Pulse covers foreign nationals of all types, including migrants that have settled here.[i]
So the next time we read about Nigerian women coming here to have their babies, pause for a moment and ask yourself, "Am I getting the full picture...or simply a tiny bit of the picture, driven by the narrative of the publication I'm reading?"
SP1814.
Full facts.org has it's own critics and has been accused of " bias and sloppy journalism.
Pulse was a publication.on which was delivered to GP,s free of charge, supported by ads for the drug companies........something that one read " on the toilet."...........but perhaps things have changed.
Full facts.org has it's own critics and has been accused of " bias and sloppy journalism.
Pulse was a publication.on which was delivered to GP,s free of charge, supported by ads for the drug companies........something that one read " on the toilet."...........but perhaps things have changed.
Sqad - the rules surrounding foreigners claiming for NHS treatment are there to protect the general population
Can we have a show of hands for those who actually don't want foreigners treated for communicable diseases or to be left in the road after a car accident?
That rather direct question seems to be being very consistantly avoided.
We should not be penny pinching over £40 million when HMRC have made so little inroad into the £1.4 BILLION in tax credit fraud.
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Unless the purpose is less about making money and more about finding a foreigner to blame.
First things first!
Can we have a show of hands for those who actually don't want foreigners treated for communicable diseases or to be left in the road after a car accident?
That rather direct question seems to be being very consistantly avoided.
We should not be penny pinching over £40 million when HMRC have made so little inroad into the £1.4 BILLION in tax credit fraud.
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Unless the purpose is less about making money and more about finding a foreigner to blame.
First things first!
jake...your first sentence about protecting the public.......I agree with you......but my point which I hope I illustrated was that the "rules" we're being bypassed, by signing on with the GP.......for ANY healthcare problems.
You have " flogged to death" the sight of an old lady lying in the road with ambulances, doctors and nurses questioning herbrightbto treatment. Good fun, but pure hyperbole.
You have " flogged to death" the sight of an old lady lying in the road with ambulances, doctors and nurses questioning herbrightbto treatment. Good fun, but pure hyperbole.
@Sqad When expressing a view about just how much foreign health tourists might be abusing the system, it is surely a good thing to establish some actual facts about how widespread the abuse is, and what cost this might represent surely?
JTP has offered some facts and figures which set the problem into some sort of context- again, this is a very good thing. And Em has pointed out that we should expect that public services spending public money should do their level best to spend the money wisely and parsimoniously - we should not be complacent about what money is misappropriated or misused.
You rubbish stats from Pulse - but the original article is happy to use some figures from Pulse - the results of a poll of doctors attitudes - AoG requoted it, and I assume that you would agree with it.
You often deride the addition of links or statistics or epidemiological evidence in some of these discussions, favouring anecdote, and I have to say - that surprises me every time.
You also discount information derived from Full Fact. org - they have been accused of bias and sloppy journalism, you claim - but I did a google search of that, with no result - who accused them of bias and sloppy journalism - can you offer a reference?
I have often read articles of theirs looking at the figures behind issues of the day, and have found them if anything far too anxious not to appear biased.....
JTP has offered some facts and figures which set the problem into some sort of context- again, this is a very good thing. And Em has pointed out that we should expect that public services spending public money should do their level best to spend the money wisely and parsimoniously - we should not be complacent about what money is misappropriated or misused.
You rubbish stats from Pulse - but the original article is happy to use some figures from Pulse - the results of a poll of doctors attitudes - AoG requoted it, and I assume that you would agree with it.
You often deride the addition of links or statistics or epidemiological evidence in some of these discussions, favouring anecdote, and I have to say - that surprises me every time.
You also discount information derived from Full Fact. org - they have been accused of bias and sloppy journalism, you claim - but I did a google search of that, with no result - who accused them of bias and sloppy journalism - can you offer a reference?
I have often read articles of theirs looking at the figures behind issues of the day, and have found them if anything far too anxious not to appear biased.....
em10
Where did you get the £40million figure from?
Are you confident that it's accurate in light of fullfact's study?
Also - there's the question of 'health tourism'.
Did you know that the 'foreign nationals' included in the figures include those who were born abroad but have permanent residency in the UK?
It's a little bit depressing that papers have not only disseminated the wrong figure (outstanding payments as opposed to written-off debt), but also trick their readership by not disclosing the fact that part of the debt is attributable to UK residents.
Where did you get the £40million figure from?
Are you confident that it's accurate in light of fullfact's study?
Also - there's the question of 'health tourism'.
Did you know that the 'foreign nationals' included in the figures include those who were born abroad but have permanent residency in the UK?
It's a little bit depressing that papers have not only disseminated the wrong figure (outstanding payments as opposed to written-off debt), but also trick their readership by not disclosing the fact that part of the debt is attributable to UK residents.
In other words, do not believe everything to read, but to understand that this Island, has no employment, no houses " unless you are blessed with wealth"
the NHS Is under immense stress including the Staff because of Bad Management, this is seen, known, (Boston Linc's) for one area, the Government have a duty, a duty to the population of Britain, Shut the Fecking gates, WE ARE FULL.
the NHS Is under immense stress including the Staff because of Bad Management, this is seen, known, (Boston Linc's) for one area, the Government have a duty, a duty to the population of Britain, Shut the Fecking gates, WE ARE FULL.
so you are saying that not just that the papers lie, but that governments do too, however much money it is, the poor bloody taxpayer, and contributor to the pot should have to keep on putting their hands in their pockets for people who either have no business to be here, or have never contributed a penny.
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