Should Women Aged 40 To 42 And Lesbians Get Fertility Treatment Free Of Charge?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2281402/5-000-children-father-born-fertility-treatment-And-lesbians-IVF-taxpayer.html

/// And – despite fears the cash-strapped health service cannot afford extra burdens – women in same-sex relationships with proven infertility will also be able to get free IVF. Up until now, lesbian couples have had to pay privately for such treatment. ///

[baza]

LL, sorry did not write as my brain thought, IVF should have a cut off age of 45, I did not mean that over 45 females become like toilets in Rottingdean...gender neutral.

[LoftyLottie]

LOL Baza! Forgiven x

[New Judge]

Lottie, you make a great play of women’s body clocks naturally preventing them from having children as they get older:

“I agree with Ratter, but would extend the age upwards. I don't think women should have children after nature does it's work to stop them having children…”

“There is a natural clock that stops childbirth. “

Quite so.

There is also a natural process that prevents women who do not want to copulate with men from having children. You suggest that IVF should not be made available to overcome the first of these natural barriers but you seem to believe that it should be available to overcome the second:

“Their rights [lesbians] to fertility treatment should be the same as hetrosexual women in my opinion“.

So what’s the difference?

It may surprise some people but nature usually has “method in her madness”. It is fairly clear that older women (generally, let’s not go into rare exceptions) are perhaps not best equipped to bear and rear children. Similarly nature may well have a reason for determining that two people of the same gender are also not best equipped to rear children.

There may be an argument which suggests that infertility is an illness which perhaps should be treated. However, we are constantly urged to accept that being homosexual is a perfectly natural state of affairs, not a deviation, and something which is not “caught” and needs to be treated. One of the manifestations of such a natural condition is that those so inclined cannot have children. They should no more expect to be “treated” by a publicly funded health service than I should because I would like to be seven feet tall.

[Zeuhl]

As lesbians do not require contraceptive services

are they not saving the NHS a lot of money by not using those services that heterosexual women can receive for free?

[joeluke]

'Should Women Aged 40 To 42 And Lesbians Get Fertility Treatment Free Of Charge?'


and what about lesbians aged 40 to 42?

[emmie]

zehul what about bisexuals and homosexual men, don't they get free condoms ?

[LoftyLottie]

New Judge. I do not think that any woman whether naturally or by IVF should have children after the menopause. Does that make it clearer? :o)

[emmie]

but some women take forever to get to and through the menopause, i know believe me.

[New Judge]

No it does not, Lottie.

I assumed that from your earlier posts anyway. Where my confusion comes in is that you seem to suggest that the "natural barrier" of age should not be overcome by artificial means whereas the "natural barrier" of homosexuality should.

[LoftyLottie]

Unfortunately though Triggs there ain't enough money to go round to make all the people that want to be happy and who the NHS could help. Its not Utopia. I would love people to all be happy too. But discriminating against a section of the community because of their gender is just so very wrong.

And I strongly believe that it is very selfish of a woman over the age of child bearing to have a child for their own happiness.

I would like to see public money spent on a fair basis.

[Ann]

When we were trying for a family, IVF wasn't free on the NHS, only privately. The tests and infertility treatment e.g Clomid was free also scans but not the implanting of fertilised eggs etc. The procedure was only just coming in during the mid-late 1980s and such treatment was being untaken at private clinics only which we couldn't afford. Think I remember it being £3000 a try.

[Ann]

We had to just accept it was not God's will for us to have children.

[emmie]

ann that is a good approach, but many don't see it that way, and not just about having children through IVF but all manner of "it's my rights", way of thinking, which quite honestly gets me down.

[magsmay]

Ratter said: // but I im a little concerned about over 40+ women having children anyway //

oh and pray what concerns are they then? I had my fourth baby in my 43rd year conceived naturally lol! - he is now 12 and I'm not ready for the scrap heap yet thank-you and am fitter than a lot of woman 20 years younger than me - didn't you know 40 is the new 30? ;-)

[LoftyLottie]

IVF is not a natural way under any circumsances New Judge, for hetrosexuals or homosexuals. So why should there be discrimination on whether a 40-42 year old is gay or not. My objection to IVF after menopause is purely as I have put in my last posting to Triggs, not because of sexual orientation. There is a good reason for not procreating after menopause in my opinion. Not a good reason for procreating if you are a gay women with natural mothering instincts.

[Ann]

We went all through the investigations and NHS treatment for 5+ years but it was just left as "unexplained infertility" as no cause could be found, which was even more heart-breaking. They crossed us off the books after I reached 40.

[LoftyLottie]

I Meant

There is no good reason why a gay woman should not procreate if she has mothering instincts and can provide a loving, secure environment for her child.

[Ann]

I remember feeling quite upset as 2 lesbians I worked with (who could well afford it) had private treatment and produced a child, when I couldn't. I'm still not really sure of my stance on this.

[LoftyLottie]

That is sad Ann, and unfair if it was because of age. But if there was no success after 5 years, perhaps it was deemed better for your health and mental welfare to stop trying in order that you could perhaps come to terms with it. It must be awful to be trying for years and years.

I never had very strong maternal urges, but when in my mid 30's we decided to try, nothing happened for 6 months. Fortunately, a couple of months on Clomid did the trick.