Should A London Borough Move Their Poorer Tenants To Towns Up North?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/10236057.Anger_at_plans_to____off_load____housing_tenants_in_Bradford/

If they can find a plot of land and build a stadium, and living areas for the World's athletes, for just a few weeks, why can't they now build affordable housing in London?

[emmie]

i could write a book about this very thing, but there isn't space. Because they don't build much affordable housing, because for the most part there is no such thing. Three small houses were built not a million miles from us, 2 million each, privately built, but this is now very common. A small patch of land and developers are in like a shot. The councils roll over and says yes please when they come calling, more money for them, but feck the people who can't afford this, nor indeed live in the area, borough or indeed going on our local authority plans for some tenants to be moved as far away as Birmingham, Leicester, not sure why, and how they think people will cope away from their families, network of support and of course their jobs, commute anyone?

[emmie]

and i didn't have to look at the link to know who it is..

[New Judge]

The term “affordable” housing is ridiculous. Which landlord on earth would get involved with property which was unaffordable? What is really meant by this term is “subsidised” (up to 100% in some cases). In providing subsidised housing (either by means of Housing Benefit or by charging less than the going rate as do most Housing Associations) all that is happening is that the market is being distorted. Tenants are being subsidised to pay rent which they would otherwise be unable to afford.

People in work - including some who also receive Housing Benefit - and who rent property have had to adjust as rents increase (mainly due to scarcity of stock). Many of them have seen a cut in income in real terms in the past few years. Mainly as a result of these two factors many of them have had to up sticks and move to less expensive areas. There is no difference between them and those who have 100% of their housing costs met by the taxpayer. Except that in addition to the problems of schools, family ties and so on, those in work also have their employment to consider when relocating.

[emmie]

who says what is the right rate, the market, just who runs the market?

[emmie]

most ordinary folk are being priced out of the capital, it's become a city for the wealthy, or some so poor they are left to fend for themselves, on the street, something no paper ever seems to pick up on.

[modeller]

During the 1950s and 60s 16 thousand houses were built in my nearest towns to house large deprived areas of London that were demolished after the war. This happened over much of the SE .
Unfortunately initially the tenants brought their values with them and these huge estates rapidly degenerated into Del Boy, Arthur Daly strongholds where no one could get credit.
However when they were allowed to buy their properties the whole ethos changed and those areas are as affluent as any of the surrounding private areas .
If people have got the incentive to better themselves they will work and businesses will move in. The towns I'm referring to, have expanded by about 30% with much lower unemployment than the rest of the country.

To answer the question I would say if people in crowded London can move
they should be helped to do so. What's the point in building expensive homes in overcrowded London where there is little prospect of employment.

After the war a number of new towns were built and you rarely hear people say they would like to go back or regret having moved.
Equally during the war many people whose homes or places of work were destroyed were rehoused hundreds of miles away and they too settled into their new homes and places of work.

P.S. I didn't read this I know it all because it happend to the whole of my extended family.

[marje]

There's a shortage of 'affordable' housing up North as well as anywhere else. The waiting lists are long and some people wait for years for a suitable home.

[emmie]

modeller, all the people i knew and grew up with originally lived in terrace houses, and were moved onto housing estates when those properties were earmarked for demolition. They all worked, all looked after their rented homes, obviously it wasn't the case one could buy, no one had that much money. The work was here, no one i know was out of work, women and men, so not sure who moved down your way, and it really seems odd to suggest that because they rented properties they somehow had no pride in their places. I really think the major problems with housing estates has come in the last 10 years or so, if you look at how estates like the Heygate near Walworth looks it's no wonder in a way, the place looks more like a prison camp then actual homes.

[New Judge]

Yes em, that's very true. I know the Heygate very well and it is grim. But although I lived in a "nice" area as a child, we lived in council accommodation on what would now be known as a "problem" estate. But when we lived there there were very few problems. Almost all the tenants worked; all paid their rent; all paid their Council Tax (which was then known as "rates" and was nothing like the sums extorted today); all kept their children in order. There was a wide range of occupations enjoyed by the tenants. Near to me we had a police officer, an ambulance driver, builders, accountants shopworkers, the lot. The difference then was that council housing was not a facility of last resort occupied mainly by unemployed and potless newcomers. There was a wide range of people of all sorts on council estates and although the accommodation was sometimes a bit grim, the tenants looked after their homes and behaved themselves.

[emmie]

NJ, i agree with every word you said, we had very good local shops, now we have none, unless you count dire expensive convenience stores, no butchers or green grocers, bakers, or indeed anything for the people who live locally. Local police looked after the area, regular milk and paper deliveries and you knew all your neighbours, whether you wanted to, now that's another story...

[emmie]

Heygate estate must have been part of the Brutalism style of architecture, prevalent in some parts of the capital now but more likely to be found in Stalinist Russia, East Germany. I am horrified whenever i go past on the bus, it should be pulled down and replaced with houses, because battery coops like this do no one any good whatsoever.

[pdq1]

Why is London the only major city in the world not to build high rise flats? They built them in the sixties with shoddy materials but the technology is there to make them safer. It could solve much of our housing problems at a stroke and improve the density of an overcrowded city.

[New Judge]

Actually, em, the last time I passed through Elephant and Castle station (which was about 12 months ago) many of the flats were boarded up. Are they still like that? Are they redevloping the site or what?

[emmie]

pdq, have you been here, there are massive high rise estates,

[emmie]

NJ, its still all boarded up, the place looks like a prison, the type you don't come out of, except in a box. I think though not 100 percent sure that there are redevelopment plans, but it needs pulling down, badly constructed, badly thought out architecture, and when you go through or pass by the whole estate it makes you wonder would the architect, planners live there, it seems very unlikely

[emmie]

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://southwarknotes.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/heygateblock.jpg&imgrefurl=http://southwarknotes.wordpress.com/heygate-estate/&h=1200&w=1600&;sz=756&tbnid=ngCIYIm3Njio7M:&tbnh=90&;tbnw=120&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dheygate%2Bestate%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=heygate+estate&usg=__SmNoVB7FU_0jqzF7AQ97giF1Zws=&;docid=XHk-GpDeUyagmM&sa=X&ei=ttUnUaSUGsfW0QWF54DAAg&ved=0CEYQ9QEwBA&;dur=436

[New Judge]

This article:

http://uk.ask.com/wiki/Heygate_Estate

suggests the monstrosity is to be torn down, em.

And this seems to confirm it:

http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/development/council-approves-heygate-estate-plans/6525347.article

[ludwig]

Christ I thought it was supposed to be grim up north. I never knew something like that could exist west of what used to be called the iron curtain.

[emmie]

we have lots of estates like this, and the glass and steel boxes they are currently putting up to supposedly house workers don't look right or better for this city.

[emmie]

ludwig, that by the way is just one block on the estate, there are lots more believe me. this is just one of the hideous estates in the capital, there are others, we have one not far away from us and its truly vile..