Will Cameron Fall On His Sword To Save His Party?

[pdq1]

After Nigel Farage UKIP met Rupert Murdoch he proposed that if Cameron was to step down UKIP would merge with the Tory Party giving them on paper a huge majority of voters at the next election.

We all know how leading politicians have such a feeling of self worth they hardly ever put their party first ahead of their own ambitions.

[Noth43]

The EEC was for trade purposes only.

[Noth43]

Not at all instrumental in keeping the peace in Europe.

[emmie]

exactly, the EEC was brought into being on the back of economic trade, not so we could stop wars, so doubt at least in my humble opinion the EU had much if anything to do with it. We seem to need them as much as they need us, at least for now, but that doesn't mean to say that will continue, when countries fight it's often over the things they have, and the other wants and isn't willing to pay for it, or it's in short supply... indeed many of the worlds natural resources are being used up at a rate of knots, so will it be oil, or gas, or some other commodity that causes the next conflict..

[Zeuhl]

/The EEC was for trade purposes only./

But was not founded in isolation from other areas of cooperation and was never intended as an end-point. the founders were very open about their ambition for greater integration:

wiki
/After World War II, moves towards European integration were seen by many as an escape from the extreme forms of nationalism that had devastated the continent.[28] The 1948 Hague Congress was a pivotal moment in European federal history, as it led to the creation of the European Movement International and also of the College of Europe, a place where Europe's future leaders would live and study together.[29] 1952 saw the creation of the European Coal and Steel Community, which was declared to be "a first step in the federation of Europe", starting with the aim of eliminating the possibility of further wars between its member states by means of pooling the national heavy industries.[30] The founding members of the Community were Belgium, France, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, and West Germany.

In 1957, the six countries signed the Treaty of Rome, which extended the earlier cooperation within the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC) and created the European Economic Community, (EEC) establishing a customs union. They also signed another treaty on the same day creating the European Atomic Energy Community (Euratom) for cooperation in developing nuclear energy./

[emmie]

that is far and away from what we have now..

[Noth43]

The point is, do you still maintain the EU is (or has been) more responsible for European peacekeeping than either the UN or NATO?

[Zeuhl]

Noth and Em

you obviously both have more belief in flooky coincidences than I have.

[emmie]

not sure i understand flooky coincidences..

[Noth43]

Nor I

[Zeuhl]

Noth

sorry, i thought i made that clear at 13.32

70 years without war within Europe is historically unprecedented and extraordinary.

that happens to coincide with unprecedented cooperation and integration within the 'Euro' political frameworks since 1948

It seems obvious that integration at a fundamental level in business, laws and regulations, migration and homogenisation of daily life is far more likely to affect peace between nations than the existence in the background of military cooperation in the form of NATO and especially the UN, who have repeatedly failed to prevent wars across the globe.

[Noth43]

As you pointed out earlier, the world is a big place but we're talking about Europe. The time frame you mention also happens to coincide with NATO, but I expect you'll put that down to a 'flooky coincidence'

[Noth43]

1993 was the year it happened, the creation of the EU. Before that it was just a trade agreement, nothing more.

[Noth43]

Becoming circuitous now....

[Zeuhl]

Well Noth

I've said I don't believe in 'flooky coincidences'

I've also detailed how European 'union' COULD explain the unprecedented peace

So please explain how NATO could have caused us Europeans not to have repeated our past mistakes

[Noth43]

Easy..more access to arms, everyone's to scared to kick off.

[emmie]

next big bang will likely come from the Middle East, so who cares what happens in EU.

[Noth43]

*too

[jake-the-peg]

If NATO was responsible for European Peace how do you explain France's absence from it?

Seriously shall we stop being silly?

NATO was a US/European focused organisation set against Russia and its satellites.

The EU/EEC is/was an inter-european organisation that intertwined trade and communications within Europe.

NATO may have played some part in keeping peace between Europe and Russia - especially in the early days after WWII

It was the EEC that stoped any chance of a reoccurence of the perpetal wars between any combination of Germany and France and the UK.

It's now unimaginable that theere coulb be a war between us or the French or the Germans in a way that our grandparents would find incredible.

It wasn't NATO that did that

[Noth43]

where's MY backup! it ain't fair

[AB Editor]

Noth & Em, does this mean to say that you think the EU/ECC had NO part to play in the peace in Europe?

I am convinced, as is Zuehl it seems, that Dr. Pinker has it spot on when he diagnoses the EU as the main contributor. NATO & the UN are often weak and slow - and in comparison the EU looks spritely!

(AOG, see here: http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/AB-Editors-Blog/Question1222934.html#answer-7805709 )