'islam Or Atheism: Which Makes More Sense?'.

[mushroom25]

the above is the title of a public debate that took place at University College Hospital on 9th March. The event has sparked some controversy which has been reported in the Daily Mail in its inimitable confrontational fashion.

UCL's stance is recorded here:-
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/0313/11032013-meeting

whilst the opposing view is represented by a group called "student rights"
http://www.studentrights.org.uk/article/2060/iera_s_yusuf_chambers_claims_ucl_ban_is_islamophobic

question - who holds the moral high ground on this?

no link to the DM version, if you want it, it's easily found on their home page (in big blue friendly letters).

[mushroom25]

whoa, where did the hospital come from? It should read UCL (LONDON)
oops.

[emmie]

i was just about to say that UCH is a hospital, the question has been raised before i believe,

[emmie]

segregating the genders, what on earth for..

[chrisgel]

Em10 -- So that the men won't be tempted to rape the women I guess.

[emmie]

Irish Male Muslim or so it says

https://twitter.com/YusufChambers

[emmie]

chrigel, at a university debate?

[emmie]

this is just the sort of thing that makes me want to scream....;

[chrisgel]

Yeah but there might be women there who aren't covered up.

[emmie]

did you read any of the links provided, or the one i posted about this man, he questions whether this is justice, freedom.

why would be be necessary to segregate the sexes, after all the women could be covered, veiled.

[LazyGun]

UCL very definitely hold the high ground here, and the hysterical assertions by Chambers cheapen genuine islamophobic commentary and actions.

The idea that we could allow segregation on the grounds of gender in this country in this day and age merely to satisfy that outdated tenets of an outdated religion is nonsensical.

One of the participants was Lawrence Krauss, the physicist, and it was he who threatened to pull out of the debate unless they stop this ridiculous notion of gender segregation. Sadly but predictably , given the partisan audience, he lost the debate.....

[emmie]

Chambers sounds like a newly converted zealot, he should take his opinions to a place that would appreciate them, like Saudi.

[chrisgel]

Sorry em10 but I must be having a dense moment. From the links I got that Yusuf Chambers was accusing UCL of being "Islamophobic" because they had banned his group from using their facilities because having segregated genders in the meetings was against UCL policies.
Have I missed something?

[LazyGun]

No chris, your understanding of the situation is correct, at least as reported... Chambers is accusing UCL of islamophobia because they refused to countenance gender segregation to acquiesce to some nonsense religious belief.

This is not islamophobia, this is just the hysterical ranting of a zealot. All i could wish was that UCL had acted a little more quickly in making it very clear that such segregation would not be allowed - by some accounts I have read, it basically took Krauss threatening to pull out of the debate at the last minute to get UCL to act.....

[jim360]

It seems odd to get complain that someone is discriminating against you because you are discriminating against other people...

[emmie]

11 March 2013
Quad

An organisation known as the Islamic Education and Research Academy (IERA) booked a room at UCL for a debate on Saturday evening (9 March). UCL was notified during Friday by some individuals planning to attend the event that the organisers intended to segregate the audience by gender.

This was directly contrary to UCL policy. We do not allow enforced segregation on any grounds at meetings held on campus. We immediately made clear to the organisers that the event would be cancelled if there were any attempt to enforce such segregation. We also required the organisers to make it explicit to attendees that seating arrangements were optional, and guests were welcome to sit wherever they felt comfortable. We also arranged for additional security staff to be present to ensure that people were not seated against their wishes.

It now appears that, despite our clear instructions, attempts were made to enforce segregation at the meeting. We are still investigating what actually happened at the meeting but, given IERA’s original intentions for a segregated audience we have concluded that their interests are contrary to UCL’s ethos and that we should not allow any further events involving them to take place on UCL premises.

[Kromovaracun]

If I'm not mistaken, the debate in question actually had its segregated seating policy reversed at the last moment because Lawrence Krauss (the participant invited in defense of atheism) packed his bags and walked out when he discovered that it was still in force despite the fact he had been told it would not be.

It's only mentioned in passing in your links, but I think it deserves a little attention.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/dispatches/2013/03/12/bravo-lawrence-krauss/?utm_source=feedburner&;utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+freethoughtblogs%2Fdispatches+(FTB%3A+Dispatches+from+the+Culture+Wars)

[Kromovaracun]

And of course I did not spot Lazy Gun's post. :/

[New Judge]

I suppose one way to address this would have been for the authorities running the hall to say this:

“For tonight’s meeting we shall expect all Muslims to sit in the back half of the auditorium and everybody else to sit at the front. ”

That should have sorted it out and I’m sure it would have been fully acceptable to the Muslim participants. And to think some schoolchildren are being sent on “cultural exchange” trips to Islamis establishments as part of their State education:

http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/ChatterBank/Question1224451.html

[emmie]

forgive me for saying this, but doesn't this make what one has been saying about the encroachment of Islamic ideology all the more real, that no matter how you turn this, and good for Krauss for taking a stand, some are bending over backwards to accommodate those who want to stamp their ideologies on others. It does give grist to the likes of BNP, as bad as that is, and it gives rise to the question when will some see this as bad for Britain, bad for our democracy, and bad for all who live on these isles. It isn't scaremongering, i see what goes on around me every day of the week, and i can't say as i care for it.

[mrs_overall]

New Judge - they are multi cultural visits, not cultural exchange visits. There is no "exchange" about them. :-)