Child Heart Surgery At Leeds General Hospital To Stop Because Of Poor Outcomes.

[pdq1]

Doesn't this show that the medical profession not only has more knowledge but more clout than the judges who decided that child operations should continue?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21974053

There seems to be a trend in England where turning to the courts goes against any perceived wisdom of correct outcomes whether its cases like these or when dealing with Abu Qatada.

[bookbinder]

If the number of deaths at the LGI childrens' heart surgery unit is thought to be unacceptably high, shouldn't there be a pause in the unit's activities whilst the death rate is investigated?

[pdq1]

Thats what the medical profession is saying but goes against the decision made by the courts only last Wednesday the Leeds unit should continue.

[Sqad]

pdq1.......I am not sure that the Paediatric Cardiac Surgeons had any say in the matter, infact i think that they are opposed to halting operations at LGI.

The mean concern is from "non medical" sources who have to answer why the incidence of deaths are higher than the national average and why more complaints of various nature are emanating from this particular department in LGI.

Quite correct too....in my opinion.

[jake-the-peg]

Er no

Judges interpret what the Law says

There seems to be a bizarre idea that judges are somehow there to use their own wisdom and hand down decisions entirely on their own assessments and without reference to the Law!

The judges job is to interpret the law not to pander to 'perceived wisdom'

If that were the case we'd just shut up Parliament and start a fascist dictatorship

[bazwillrun]

"If that were the case we'd just shut up Parliament and start a fascist dictatorship "

what like the one thats trying to rule us now the eussr !?

Court says they cant stop operations etc etc

So hospital decided to have a "safety review" which means ops cant go ahead until review finished, review will last months meanwhile staff will be got rid of etc etc then when review finsihed not enough staff to justify unit so unit stays shut...win win for spitful petty little bureaucrats that run hospital

[jake-the-peg]

Oh yes the dictatorship of theU

Which MEP did you vote for Baz?

Or is it the council of ministers elected by their own nations you object to?

The EU must have the most elections of any dictatorship I've ever come across!


Come to that when is the Queen standing for re-election?

[Mattk]

We live in a society that heavily criticises when action is not taken eg care homes, social services etc etc.
In this case action has been taken and.....they are being heavily criticised.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
If the death rate is higher than the national average that deserves investigation in my opinion.

[jake-the-peg]

If we investigated every hospital with a death rate above the national average we would be investigating half the country in the country every year wouldn't you say?

[jake-the-peg]

*half the hospitals in the country every year* that should say!

[Sqad]

\\\If we investigated every hospital with a death rate above the national average we would be investigating half the country in the country every year wouldn't you say?\\\

Er...no.

The average death rate is not linear...it is not a straight single line......the average is calculated between two levels.

[LazyGun]

The recent NHS review of paediatric cardiology concluded that we would be far better off with regional centres of excellence. Nationally,there have been lots of rumblings surrounding the mortality rate at Leeds, as well as the Brompton, in London.

This review sparked campaigns at Leeds and a squabble amongst the London Childrens units - but those campaigns focused more on sentiment than the evidence, and local MPs and politicians got involved, as they do.

Based upon those rumblings, based upon the findings of the review, the clinical decision was always that Leeds should close - the judges decision to reverse that finding seems wrong.

We see lots of campaigns to "save our local hospitals", especially in areas like London, but they are often governed by the heart rather than by the head....

http://www.specialisedservices.nhs.uk/safe_sustainable/childrens-congenital-cardiac-services

[Peter Pedant]

If we investigated every hospital with a death rate above the national average we would be investigating half the country in the country every year wouldn't you say? jake

um no I wouldnt actually

average doesnt mean that half are above and half below
that is median

If you have a data set { 1,2,3,4, 1000)
the average is around 200 and oo look ! Four are below and one above


The statistic that partitions a set into two equal halves is Median

yours pedantically and more accurately....... PP

[ludwig]

// Doesn't this show that the medical profession not only has more knowledge but more clout than the judges who decided that child operations should continue? //

Yes. As jake says the judges are there to interpret the law. They know absolutely nothing about how to run hospitals or how to keep children safe.

[pdq1]

Quite Ludwig thats why the courts should never be brought into it in the first place. Lazygun has hit the nail on the head. We cannot afford to run top specialist hospitals in every town and city and even if we did wouldn't have enough top consultants in this field to operate them.

You could blame the parents for not wishing to travel further afield to get better treatment at these Centres of Excellence. Surely the parent would wish the best for their children and better clinical outcomes but many seem the extra travel is not worth the effort. They should think again.

[Peter Pedant]

.


well in the interests openness and truth

anyone who thinks Sir Bruce has indulged in a stitch up job on the Hospital can always refer him to the GMC for lack of probity

and it does seem odd that a day after a case to try the issues in the High Court with an independent judiciary,
new information SUDDENLY becomes available from a few of his friends on which he (not independent but employed by people who have an interest in closed hospitals and lower costs) on which he HAS to act

very odd indeed.

and there is no doubt that his actions have eroded confidence in what doctors at the ministry say.

[Peter Pedant]

.


and he is also n the Specialist Register for cardiac surgery

I wonder how many of those he does a year -
specifically what HIS results are.

or has he revalidated (periodic MOT test for doctors) in cardiac surgery by reason of pushing papers around a desk for a few years, closing hospitals, and taking calls from his pals ? Surely surely not


so I am saying he is on the specialist register because he doesnt operate very often whereas some of his colleagues are off the medical register because they do (and have bad results)

The whole point of revalidation (periodic MOT test for doctors) is that if they have revalidated you can be sure they are up to speed in their specialty................so what about all those knighted pen pushers at the ministry, do they revalidate in their home speciality [President of the GMC is revalidated in General Internal Medicine - I bet you see him on the ward a lot especially at week ends) or is there revaiidation entry ( = periodic MOT for doctors) 'red hot at pen pushing' ?

such is the future.