Young Man Crushed To Death By Train.

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2302155/Ryan-Harrison-crushed-death-train-argument-Guildford-station.html

What a horrible death for this poor young chap.

Surely it is time that some form of safety fence should be installed making it impossible for travellers to get close to the edge of the platform?

The main entrance gate could then be opened when the train stops at the platform and then the passengers could then move down the platform to enter the carriages.

[jake-the-peg]

Like these?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platform_screen_doors

Used around a lot of the world

[mushroom25]

all well and good at fully-staffed stations like guildford.

but would passengers be prepared to pay the price (in hugely-inflated fares)for such precautions to be installed somewhere like this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altnabreac_railway_station

[whiskeryron]

// Surely it is time that some form of safety fence should be installed making it impossible for travellers to get close to the edge of the platform?//

Sorry AOG, Unaffordable in 3rd world countries(UK).

WR.

[Gromit]

Railway platforms have been around for nearly 200 years and I am surprised no one has noticed this fatal flaw.

If someone is going to murder someone by throwing them in front of a train then surely they will just push them over the fence.

And what about people being pushed in front of cars. Should we fence off all the roads as well?

[Buenchico]

You've obviously never worked on train dispatch, AOG.

At peak times you need to get perhaps 100 people off a train (with all their luggage) and then 300 people (possibly including two wheelchair users, and everyone's luggage) onto it, all in under two minutes.

Your idea is totally impractical unless the railways went to the vast expense of introducing the same system as operates on London's jubilee line.. (The Jubilee Line system, at some stations, has trains arriving next to sets of doors from the platform, with those doors only opening when the train doors do).

The Guildford incident is, of course, unfortunate but dozens of people get pushed into the paths of moving cars and lorries (during brawls outside pubs, etc) every year. Are you suggesting that every pavement should have gates which only open when a vehicle pulls up alongside?

[boxtops]

what does concern me is the huge gap at some stations between the edge of the platform and the train entrance - Gillingham is one I use regularly which is particularly bad - if your foot flipped on the wide reach, you could easily fall into the gap.

[mushroom25]

Chris, the Jubilee Line system is only effective because all the stock used on the line is identical. Given the various stock types used on the national system, with different length vehicles, different door pitches, different width doors, different door opening methods, etc, developing edge barriers compatible with all would be next to impossible.

[anotheoldgit]

jake-the-peg

Exactly Jake, thanks for the link. obviously they work in some countries and I bet they also do not have their roads screened off also.

Judging by the hight of them I would also think it would be quite a job for someone to push another over them, as Gromit points out.

But perhaps that is why we in Britain, the inventors of rail travel, are slow in providing such things, given such negative thinking, it's a wonder that we still do not have open top carriages.

[Buenchico]

Mushroom25:
I was taking all of that into account when I referred to 'vast expense'. As you say, there would have to be changes to rolling stock, as well as to platforms, if the system was to be introduced. I hope that I made it clear that I regard it as totally infeasible. (I certainly wasn't putting it forward as a practical solution!).

[mushroom25]

chris, yep, your intent as to meaning was quite clear, i was seeking to head off anyone seizing on your "unless" as a viable proposition.

[joko]

aog idea is impractical and would take far too long - but jtp's link isnt - and i assume it is something like that that aog meant really - basically a barrier - any barrier - to the tracks, that automatically opens when the train arrives.

i dont see any reason why they should make things take longer, but if they did they could just arrange the timetables to accommodate the extra moment it would take to get on and off the trains.

even on a journey of 20 stops its only and extra 20 mins - people could just get an earlier train.

[mushroom25]

joko, any barrier would need to be provided with a means of passing through, which would necessarily have to line up with the doors of the train. on the uk network there are just too many different train types to make any system like that practical, without making the barrier unbelievably complicated. plus it could never be automatic, a platform operative would need to manually select the correct train type for the barrier to match.

barriers could work effectively in this country only if access to the platform itself were to be restricted until the train has drawn alongside. that i believe would be too time-consuming, a busy station requiring maybe 5mn or more to process boarding and alighting passengers - don't forget the platform would have to be cleared before the train could depart.

[joko]

mushroom, did you see jtp's link - its already in place in some places - and it works

the barrier could be slightly further back perhaps, so that the position of doors is not a problem as there is room to walk.

[joko]

i wonder if something a bit more like the movable bollards they have that disappear into the ground so cars can pass, or the sort of thing that banks have in the event of a robbery, that come down from the ceiling, operated by the driver when they were clear, would work better than doors perhaps?.

[Zeuhl]

Such incidents are very rare so spending billions on making them 'impossible' would be a foolish over reaction

Suicides from station platforms are slightly more common but making them 'impossible' would no doubt simply displace the problem to bridges or crossings

The safety barriers on some of the Tube platforms are practicable in new builds and useful where platforms become congested

[mushroom25]

joko, yes i did see the link. those barriers only work because all the trains that use those stations are identical, and the train doors always line up with the barrier doors. this is not the case on the UK national railway network.

setting the barriers back will compromise a lot of platforms that are already worryingly narrow - and provide the opportunity for passengers to run alongside the train (looking for seats?) inside the barriers.

[baza]

as sad as this incident is, the cost of putting up barriers would be prohibitive, the fare paying public would not be happy footing the bill.

[andy-hughes]

Regardless of how practical or desireable such measures may be, they would never ever happen on the UK rail network.

The rail network is run to finance mangement bonuses and shareholder dividends. This gives those in charge serious tunnel (sorry!) vision - focused on not only saving money on existing infrtastructure, but minimising expendature on any new schemes.

The notion of something that only saves lives, not money, is therefore to be ignored immediately.

[andy-hughes]

youngmafbog - "In the Islamist world women are second to men and should know their place. I don't suppose they will be happy with the way the girls are dolled up Western style either."

Exactly how many Islamist countries have you seen first hand to inform your opinion on their cultural attidudes?

[andy-hughes]

Oops sorry - this went on the wrong thread!