What Do Modern Day Fascists Believe In???

[sp1814]

Having never met one...I'm curious.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100209856/paolo-di-canio-is-a-fascist-time-to-boycott-sunderland/

[seadogg]

By the way sloops, we used to call that "social fascism".

[humbersloop]

seadogg ;)

[jake-the-peg]

I don't think there is a generally accepted definition of facism but Wikipedias definition of a radical authoritarian nationalism hostile to liberal democracy seems pretty good to me.

Personally I might question whether facism has to be nationalistic in practice it seems that it is.

I would say the defining characteristic is a rejection of democracy in favour of a dictatorship handing out hash penalties to those that oppose it or it's policies.


You see a number of proto-facists on here bemoaning the lack of 'strong government' often pointing at courts that do things they disagree with.

The supposed policies are often characterised as 'common sense'.

I often think that such people really would like to be a dictator themselves but in lieu of that would settle for a proxy-dictator rigorously enforcing the view that they share

[bazwillrun]

@Andy-hughes

"In purely footballing terms, sacking a manager of the calibre and experience of Martin O'Neil"

you dont know much about football then...the O stands for overrated.

If as some of you claim PDC being a fascist must also be a racist, one of your oh so boring leftie use at any chance throw-away insults then he wont be playing any black players will he ?!

some of you need to grow up and get over yourselves and your self righteous holier than thou attitudes.

I couldnt give a monkies about his politics

[andy-hughes]

bazwillrun - no I don't know much about football, but i bow to the superior knowledge of the present Mrs Hughes, season ticket holder and serious fan since the age of fifteen - some forty-two years.

I wouldn't for a moment imagine that being a racist - if indeed he is - would prevent PDC from playing black players.

Being of a racist pursasion does not mean an instant disassociation with any person of colour - racism is rarely as black and white (excuse the pun!) as that.

PDC is shrewd enough to do his job - which may well include picking black players - without allowing his political views to intervene. That does not automatically mean he is, or indeed is not, a facist and / or a racist, although i do think the two viewpoints to somewhat compliment each other.

You cannot escape the fact that as a football club manager, PDC's politics and personal views do have a direct bearing on his position - and Sunderland fans and the wider footballing community, do care about them.

[brionon]

You keep asking Why we didn't make a fuss when he was at Swindon. We didn't bloody KNOW- OK ?

[Zeuhl]

/I couldnt give a monkies about his politics /

That seems a mindless and negligent attitude to choose - whoever one is referring to

But the key factor to judge PDC on is his behaviour

[anotheoldgit]

It would seem that he is not on his own for making offensive salutes.

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/About/General/2012/3/28/1332936684595/OLYMPICS-BLACK-POWER-SALU-008.jpg

[anotheoldgit]

jake-the-peg

/// I would say the defining characteristic is a rejection of democracy in favour of a dictatorship handing out hash penalties to those that oppose it or it's policies. ///

Sounds very much like communism to me, with a little bit of the the actions of some AnswerBank's thrown in.

[emmie]

even you can't confuse that salute with the Nazi's, that was a black power salute, and those paid very dearly for their stance, you should look them up, might learn something.

[sp1814]

AOG

That is a rather silly comparison.

Have a read of this Wikipedia link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Olympics_Black_Power_salute

I think you might agree that there is some difference between a...

...no, I will let you draw your own conclusions. Maybe you think that the black power salute, bearing in mind the civil rights movement at the time, is equal to a fascist salute.

Not sure that many would agree with you, but who knows.

[emmie]

i really don't know how one could compare the two, those men were fighting for basic human rights, isn't that what we did in WW2, to be free, in a democracy and not be levelled flat by a dictator like Hitler, no comparison at all.

[sp1814]

AOG

Incidentally, 'offensive'???

Are you sure that the black power salute was offensive? I thought the issue was that the athletes were using an essentially non-political event (the Olympics) to make a political point.

Do you find it offensive, and if so, why?

Was is the salute or civil rights in gene...

...no - we've veered way off topic here. Should we not stick to discussing modern fascism?

[jake-the-peg]

AOG -Nope - the defining characteristic of communism is common ownership of the means of production.

Franco for example was a fascist (authoritarian nationalist dictator) but in no way was a communist !!

You can of course have comminist authoritarian dictators like Stalin - they tend to be labelled Marxist

[sp1814]

AOG

JTP has highlighted something that I think is key here. I am guessing that if you asked 100 people, most would not be able to define a fascist accurately.

Perhaps the reason PDC stated "I'm a fascist, not a racist", because the two terms have been conflated in people's minds...like 'socialist' and 'Marxist'.

These words aren't synonyms, but I think to many people, they mean the same thing?

What's your thoughts?

[emmie]

call him what you like, dictator, fascist, iron fist, still revered in some quarters, though heaven knows why.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

/// That is a rather silly comparison. ///

em10

/// i really don't know how one could compare the two, ///

Please do not try and read into this something that I never said or suggested.

Did I make a comparison?

The answer is 'NO', I was merely making a tongue in the cheek remark, by stating, "It would seem that he is not on his own for making offensive salutes".

And as regards my use of the word 'offensive' if either of you care to read about these two Olympic athletes, you will not fail to notice that they did in fact 'OFFEND' some people.

/// The black power salute sparking a terse response for the International Olympic Committee at the time, deemed it a political statement not fit for the Games. They ordered the athletes suspended and never again did Smith, Carlos or Norman race for their country. ///

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/culturevideo/filmvideo/9394185/Film-about-1968-Olympics-Black-Power-salute-offers-lessons-for-todays-athletes.html

[emmie]

but they are not offensive salutes, they are to highlight a terrible wrong, clenched fist, solidarity for all black people, many of whom were still being treated abominably, segregation didn't just stop, nor the hounding and harassing of black people. KKK didn't rest on it's laurels, it's still around, along with any number of other far right organisations, not unlike some of our more extreme right.

[emmie]

offend white people, those who still considered themselves superior, suggest reading what happened after the games, perhaps it wasn't the right time to do this, but perhaps it was, seeing as how the state of race relations in USA wasn't improving in a way that one would expect in such a wealthy and multi cultured, multi layered society.

[sp1814]

AOG

The salutes were not 'offensive'.

Where in your link does it says they were?

Sorry if we misinterpreted your link to the black power salutes. I think that most people would assume you were trying to somehow conflate the two different (some would say significantly different) types of salute.

One displays courage in the face of disgusting racism, and the other? Perhaps not...