Has The Welfare System Created A Monster 2?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2304037/Mick-Philpott-benefits-culture-George-Osborne-attacked-Labour-saying-UK-needs-debate-welfare.html

Earlier in the week I posted a thread "Has The Welfare System Created A Monster"?

This was based on a Daily Mail report, and yesterday George Osborne made similar comments and was slated by labour for doing so, was this fair?

George Osborne was not in anyway taking the opportunity of using this tragic case to get over a political point, neither were the Daily Mail or myself.

Mick Phillpott was a 'infamous celebrity' way before he resorted to murdering his children, due mostly to the generous state handouts he enjoyed, and are not most responsible for the celebrity status that he so lavishly enjoyed?

This was encouraged by the media especially television, with the Jeremy Kyle Show, Breakfast TV, and that Ann Widdecombe documentary, some members of the public seemed to get some sort of disturbing enjoyment out of watching these shows, as do some who 'rubber neck' accidents.

Why is this with some people?

[TWR]

The Welfare System HAS created spongers, thats what this was all about "MONEY" & this evil person knew it, If there is free money to get " Welfare" there are people like this person all over the UK, WHY should people work when they can get ££££££££££££££ off the state? to a point, the people are not to blame it's the system, give them tokens not ££££££.

[emmie]

zeuhl, i don't envy anyone, not Osborne nor David Cameron, they are welcome to their lives, lifestyles. After all Osborne was born into wealth, as were any number of people, nothing new about that. Many wealthy in the past were great philanthropists, and i am sure there are any number around now, not least Bill Gates, so not worried about their money. I only wish i could have a little to ease the fear, that's all.

[Davethedog]

Its such a stupid assertion, so obvious a political posture that it would be laughable, if it so wasn't.

Is this scumbag the only unemployed person to commit murder? How far do we take it Jeremy Bamber came from a rich family, if they weren't would he never have killed or was he just a psychopath.

It a claim that doesn't have any credence, I note on today’s Fail Philpot is referred to as "Shameless Mick" that just looks wrong or am I over reacting.

[Zacs-Master]

Not for the first time TWR, i don't follow your logic, especially

thats what this was all about "MONEY" & this evil person knew it

[emmie]

it's what the DM does, a headline nothing more, you believe it or you don't, at the end of a long day it really doesn't matter. The man is now in jail, and we can all breathe a sigh of relief, until the next one.

[TWR]

Zac, in other words some can get more on Benifits than working, & this evil sht knew it.

[Sqad]

TWR...I have a certain amount of sympathy for your comments.

Yes, perhaps Philpott would have found other ways of exploitation outside of the welfare state and in which case one cannot blame the system for "creating him."

But if i had two women to exploit, then two ways seem to be obvious.
Firstly, send them onto the streets and "live off their immoral earnings" OR by exploitation of the Benefits System which had he not killed the children, would have brought him in a cool £70, 000 per annum for the foreseeable future.

The answer would seem obvious........

[Zacs-Master]

Are you saying that the evilness of him claiming benifits (questionable in itself) is the same aspect of his character which led him to his several violent crimes?

[Zeuhl]

zacs

at the risk of conducting a Personality Profile based on a few news articles

it appears that MP liked to be surrounded by people who adored/feared him; people he could control

he probably also liked that their very existence brought a predictable and secure income (benefits and wages) that funded a stay-at-home lifestyle for him

that stay-at-home lifestyle enabled him to exercise that control 24/7

Therefore a controlled, secure environment that served his inflated ego and personal needs

His biggest fear would be anyone attempting to break that control

His breakaway mistress would be one example of that and a serious threat to erode his controlled ego-serving environment

[emmie]

just for the record, the wife and girlfriend worked, have no idea at what, but they did. Neither had a key to the house, how or why on earth would you stay with a man like that.

[Zacs-Master]

Zeuhl, You could argue conversely that if MP had not been kept calm in this state funded cocoon, then he may have committed more crime if he didn't have the opportunity to control people. IMO it was in his DNA and would have manifested itself at some point in his life, whatever the circumstances.

[emmie]

zac have you read his MO, he is a bstard. He was on bail before the fire incident. Not to mention a list as long as your arm of assault, so not just a controlling man, but an out of control one.

[Zacs-Master]

My point exactly.

[jim360]

There's not much I can add to this that hasn't already been said, either in this thread or by me in another thread. Philpott was a nasty man, and to judge the benefits system by his actions is just the wrong thing to do entirely. It's a shame that George Osborne has used this as an excuse to call for a welfare debate. The system is by no means perfect, but this isn't the case to use to call for change.

[Zeuhl]

Indeed so zacs

whether Nature or Nurture, he was certainly showing signs of this behaviour when he was younger in his 'pre-welfare' days

as you say, benefits were part of the enabler but without them he would probably have found another way

For a start, I'm sure a lot of abused women with working husbands will recognise aspects of Philpott in their own circumstances

[emmie]

jim, exactly, wrong time and place.

[Sqad]

\\\The system is by no means perfect, but this isn't the case to use to call for change. \\\

Jim, I agree with your post, I don't necessarily think that one is "looking for a change" in the system.........but surely.........better supervision.

[anotheoldgit]

em10

/// nor should he have said that the vast majority of people agree with him, do they? have a referendum on it and you will get a vastly different picture. ///

Today's Daily Mail poll asked:

"Did the benefits system contribute to the Philpott fire killings"?

Up to now the result is, 71% YES, 29% NO.

[Zacs-Master]

I think that says more about DM readers than it does about Georgy Portly.

[andy-hughes]

AOG - as you and I know well, the Mail readership is not known for its popularity among the Benefits strata of our society - so the poll is harldy surprising.

If you polled on the return of foxhunting, you'd get a similar response - doesn't really imply a concensus - nor would any other newspaper poll.

There is no use asking Mail readers if they'd like a Page Three 'dolly' every day, and there is no use askin Sun readers if they'd like to stop bingo.

Appealing to your demographic sells papers - nothing new there.