Is Our Entertainment Worth It?

[sp1814]

Two horses have died at Aintree already...is there an argument for banning this sport?

Cards on the table...I am ambivalent. I don't want a ban, but I wouldn't care of jump racing was banned.

Where do YOU stand?

[LyndaB]

No I wouldn't want to see horse racing banned even though I have very little interest in it

[emmie]

a friend who was involved in racing said they do, but not all. He also said that you cannot make a horse do something it won't want to do. You can break it's spirit, but after that it won't be much use. They are incredibly intelligent animals, are beautiful to look at, specifically the real thoroughbreds, and like you i hope they can find a way to make Aintree safer.

[woofgang]

Em they like it because they are bred to do it, they have no concept of pain or fear, you can breed an animal to like anything, that doesn't mean that we should.

[emmie]

all animals fear and feel pain, we just can't equate it with the way we feel and express pain. Haven't you ever seen an animal in distress, cat or dog..

[jim360]

I don't know enough about horses to be able to tell if they like it or not. But animals have innate instincts that no amount of breeding will get rid of. So if an animal does something and it's not being whipped to within an inch of its life, then you can be pretty sure that it doesn't mind doing it. Similarly, if a horse chose not to jump a fence it would pull up. As indeed many do at the various races.

I'm not saying the sport is cruelty-free -- frankly, I think the whip should be dropped completely for example -- but certainly it's possible for horse racing to continue while still respecting animal welfare. More improvements to the safety of the course are needed first, and only once that approach has been tried and has failed should we consider banning it.

[boxtops]

There's a lot of publicity this year about the new safer plastic inserts to the jumps - but we'll see.

[woofgang]

Em I meant the concept of " if I do that it will hurt" when I said about the concept of fear and pain.
Jim, animals can be bred to like to do certain things regardless of the risk to themselves, that's why the argument that the horses like it is not acceptable. It's a very subtle kind of abuse to breed an animal to like to do something that puts them at risk of injury or death.

[Maydup]

And why is not wrong to breed them for slaughter woof?

[woofgang]

Did I say that it wasn't?

[whiskeryron]

I don't know, there's always somebody out there who wants to ban something, they'll be wanting to ban the sport of intervening in other countries & banning the splendid game of warring next.

WR.

[tamborine]

Survival of the fittest is nature's law.

[Baldric]

///I think the whip should be dropped completely for example///

I assume you've never ridden a horse in your life if that's the case

[ttfn]

I am smiling at Valmave's answer :)

[Kromovaracun]

Jeez, this has been a REALLY bad year for horses....

[emmie]

well i don't suppose the 7 million or so horses, donkeys, mules that were killed during WW1 were particularly happy about that, and i bet you a pound to a penny there were an awful lot of men who absolutely loved those horses.
I mentioned earlier about Jack Seeley, he was one, the one thing that was startling was how many that survived the war, the horses that is, were left in France to be turned into food, it was cheaper than taking them home. This is not to upset people, but if a horse has a use, we have used them, either pulling a coal cart, barge, plough, or in times of war. Now they breed them for racing, some go on and live out their days in happy retirement, or to stud, however the rest don't.

[emmie]

the whip shouldn't be used on a horse, dog or any creature, i wholeheartedly concur on that, and anyone doing so should be hit with it.

[joeluke]

Yawn........it's the annual 'lets ban the Grand National' thread

A small minority of horses die on racecourses every week, it's only because it's Aintree week that fatalities are highighted more

[jim360]

Surely it's wrong to hit horses and cause them pain? Having said that the riding crop is apparently a far more important part of riding than I really appreciated. You're right, I've never ridden in my life.

[emmie]

i have, and didn't care for it, poor horse x

[jim360]

You can't breed an animal to do anything, Woofgang, have more respect for them than that. Take the humble chicken. Kind of a good example, actually, as they can breed fairly quickly - at least a generation every year and usually faster. So based on that, probably about 3,000 generations or so of breeding. And you still can't get them to do anything, and chickens can let you know pretty easily when they like, or don't like, whatever is going on. Most animals are the same. Breeding will never fully get rid of an animal's innate instincts.

Having said all that I'm still not really comfortable with horse racing since the risks are clearly great and I doubt horses fully understand the dangers. But even so, wouldn't ban it until it's been established that there's no way to improve the safety any further.