Sexual Apartheid?

[LazyGun]

We really should be stamping out this nonsense about segretation, enforced or even voluntary, regardless of whether they claim a religious or cultural exemption, don't you think?

Quite apart from the fact that, as a rule, women tend to smell better... the last thing I would want is to be forced to sit only with other blokes

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2013/apr/15/leicester-investigating-islamic-group-gender-segregation?CMP=twt_gu

[Old_Geezer]

Don't think you could control yourself ?

[LazyGun]

I think I might be able to retain control in a segregated or non-segregated environment OG - but it would appear that this Islamic society do not have the same level of confidence in those attending their meetings!

[jno]

it's bizarre, but it doesn't quite amount to discrimination: it's not as if one sex was banned or had to attend separate lectures. I have heard that there are whole schools - and not just Islamic ones - which admit members of only one sex, which I would have thought was much more problematic.

[youngmafbog]

How on earth do you match Islamic 15C beliefs with single sex schools?

The main idea behind single sex schools is to concentrate the minds of young adolescents who might otherwise be spending rather more time than necessary in trap with thoughts other than schoolwork. It is not because one sex is though beneath the other.

Quite different really.

[LazyGun]

Do you think we should tolerate such segregation in the UK then, jno? That a religious or cultural observance should be tolerated even if it leads to this sort of practice?

Can't say I do. And i take what ymb is saying on board - but I would not be a fan of single sex schools either, tbh :)

[jim360]

Apparently gender segregation in schools consistently leads to better exam results, both for the girls and the boys. Seems an idea worth putting into practice more, rather than less. Segregation later on isn't comparable in the same way because it seems to be about some strange idea that one is inferior to the other...

[LazyGun]

@jim I am not personally able to really make an informed decision on the supposed benefits of gender segregation in schools, Jim, although I had understood that what evidence there was was at best equivocal.

Regardless- I do not want to derail the topic, which is gender segregation on religious or cultural grounds, and whether we should allow it in the UK - especially for adults.

[237SJ]

It already is allowed in the UK - at prayer time in mosques. I can`t see the difference really.

[LazyGun]

I suppose thats true 237 - but thats specifically a place of worship. In this instance, the segregation occurred for an open meeting to discuss the existence of god, but held at a secular university location.

Thats why i question whether such gender segregation should be allowed or tolerated - because it is in a secular institution, it was an open meeting. and I do not think gender segregation is something to be tolerated in those circumstances.....

[237SJ]

The meeting was held by an islamic group though. That means that islamic sensitivities are going to come into play and segregation is part of that in the same way that you wouldn`t serve up ham sandwiches during the interval or serve rum punch at a Mormon discussion. I can`t see a problem with it myself.

[Zeuhl]

It's an assumption (that genders should be separated) that needs to be nipped in the bud.

Places of worship may be an exception, but even if people attend a single-sex school they might well be sitting next to a staff member of the opposite gender so the segregation is not fundamental, so to speak.

I would like to see a few people of both sexes attend the event and sit in the 'wrong' area. What could the organisers do about it?
It would be much better for the venue operators (ie the Uni) to outlaw this practice as some have already done.

[jno]

youngmafbog, I suspect the lecture was segregated for exactly the same reason as schools are. There is nothing in either case to suggest one sex is considered inferior to the other.

If it can be done on non-religious grounds, then why shouldn't it be done on religious ones?

[LazyGun]

@237 OK, you seem fairly relaxed about it then :)

It was a public meeting though, so that might mean in theory that those who attended who were not muslim or followers of Islam would have felt obligated to follow the gender segregation, which cannot be right.

I would be with the Tatchells of this world on this;
""Gender segregated seating contravenes the equal opportunities and anti-discrimination policies of universities and student unions. Students and staff should not be subjected to sexist segregationist policies.

"Universities are supposed to be places of enlightenment, tolerance, liberalism and human rights. It is shocking the way some student Islamist societies are being allowed to force women to sit apart from men, sometimes with the connivance of the university authorities, who take a hands-off approach. Some universities are doing very little to ensure that the campus is a safe and equal place for all students.""

[jim360]

The problem starts coming when we see what measures are taken against those who break the segregation "rule". If people are encouraged but not forced to be segregated then there is not really an issue. If on the other hand wanting to sit with your girlfriend but being forced not to, then we really do have a problem. So for that reason I'd be interested to see what happened if people followed Zeuhl's suggestion of protesting this by sitting in the "wrong area".

[Zeuhl]

/you wouldn`t serve up ham sandwiches during the interval or serve rum punch at a Mormon discussion./

The Uni will indeed serve ham sandwiches in its shops and cafeterias
and will serve rum punch in its bars

Whether particular interest groups choose to avail themselves is another matter but the choices are there

Allowing a group to dictate and enforce gender segregation in Uni facilities is akin to allowing them to dictate what is sold in the bars and cafeterias

If the interest group's attendees choose to segregate themselves that is their prerogative but it should be clear that they cannot dictate that or object if someone sits with people of the opposite gender

[Titehead]

If you are a member of an ethnic group you can get away with pretty much anything in this country.

We are still full of liberal apologists who will bend over backwards for them. It's their 'ooman rights.

[jno]

you not a member of an ethnic group, Titehead? I wonder how you did that.

[LazyGun]

Except, Titehead, that in this instance, it is mostly those liberals you so despise who are the most concerned about this sort of segregation - It being, ironically enough, a breach of basic human right to equality of treatment and freedom of movement/expression

[Zeuhl]

^
OMG!

not //'ooman// again

I thought that old cobblers had outworn its welcome months ago along with 'elf'n'safety'

you will probably find titehead that 'liberals' are also very much opposed to the practices of 'ethnic groups' precisely because

the practices are illiberal

[anotheoldgit]

By the way this story has enraged most ABers one would think that it was a Daily Mail link that some of you have come to hate, but no I can't believe it it's a Guardian one, now who would have thought that?

Not turning slightly Right-Wing are they?