Us Decides Against Tighter Gun Control

[ChillDoubt]

..in what President Obama calls "a shameful day for Washington".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22194183

You really do have to marvel at the utter stupidity of the Senate at times, you really do.

I appears the nation's obsession for guns will never be assuaged, when you know the next Columbine or Sandy House is just around the proverbial corner.

[jake-the-peg]

//or if you sell it *you* do a background check//

see any flaw with that?

[andy-hughes]

In the same was as a UK government would never ban smoling or alchohol, approving of a gun ban is the same as saying 'I no longer wish to have your vote, or be re-elected ever again, thank you ...'.

In order to be in a position where you could seriously impact the national thinking about weapons, you have to have proved already that you think things are fine just as they are.

For some reason, the American psyche - so forward thinking and aspirational in so many other areas of thought, seems routed in this eighteenth century frontiersman mentality, and it is unshakeable - and likely to remain so.

[coccinelle]

there is no flaw; you do the background check which means registering and checking the name etc of the person buying through a proper channel if it's given the OK the gun is registered in that person's name and that person comes responsible for it.

[AB Editor]

Guns may be able to be printed and assembled quickly, easily and without a trace at home in the coming years:

http://www.theverge.com/2013/4/12/4209364/guns-want-to-be-free-what-happens-when-3d-printing-and-crypto-anarchy

It's not a massive outlay for a 3d printer currently anyway... But these machines may become more ubiquitous in our homes.

Gun control is pointless when a criminal can print their own weapon.

I'm not sure where you go from there to be honest.

[vulcan42]

Printer control?

[AB Editor]

"Printer control?"

But you, my friendly neighbour, have a printer, and I have the instructions to print a printing machine.

I now have a printing machine which only you and I know about and the state knows nothing.

[jim360]

Would a 3D-printer be able to print out a full gun, though? I don't know enough about how they work but I would have thought it difficult. There has to be a limit to what 3D-printers can achieve

[LazyGun]

Interesting point, Ed - 3D printing is a very interesting and emerging "next generation" technology, with the potential to have a big impact on manufacturing and retail.

I was not aware that it was technically possible to manufacture a ocmplete gun via 3D technology just yet - only some of the parts.And I doubt you could manufacture the ammo easily. Still, it will probably inform the debate.

Where the country is awash with guns - and it is; an estimated 320 million of them - then i imagine that folks inured to the idea of armed holdups, armed muggers and armed street gangs will feel reluctant to give up the right to have a firearm for self-defence. Clanad has argued elogquently enough on AB in support of his right to carry a gun.

And, given that the constitution is regarded as a kind of religious sacrament, the 2nd amendment does pose a problem.It would take a very brave person, or movement, to consider changing the constitution, but really, nothing should be cast in stone, immutable, especially in politics, and the 2nd amendment really does need to be amended, revised or removed completely.

It is incredibly sad though that they cannot even seem to take the first step - even one that seems to be an entirely uncontroversial one - the idea of background checks.

I fear that it will take probably many more of these outrages before the momentum really changes sufficiently to effect substantive change.

Meanwhile, you have the prospect of various states authorising teachers to carry guns into classrooms, teenagers being able to carry guns into universities, and concealed carry permits for people going to bars, restaurants and nightclubs.

In the meanwhile, there have been over 3000 deaths attributable to firearms in the USA since Sandy Hook, just a few months ago;

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2012/12/gun_death_tally_every_american_gun_death_since_newtown_sandy_hook_shooting.html

[Titehead]

Canary! even this is MrsT's fault PMSL!

[jake-the-peg]

Of course there's a flw 2 million handguns are sold in the US every year second hand.

How do you police the background checks on that - it would take a major DVLA style operation even to make in indent.

Not saying they shouldn't start it - a journey of a million miles etc.

[Canary42]

To the Thatcher Apologists:-

Thank you for distorting then mocking my post - it gave me a chuckle.

Thatcher on her own was (as your responses confirm) far too small a World Figure to have any effect.

[emmie]

the last time i read a piece on gun ownership was when the last tragedy happened at Sandy Hook, the estimated figure was somewhere in the region of 300 million guns, not every one owns one, but some own many. How do you stop it, you don't.

[emmie]

canary your blind hatred does you no credit. This is a problem that America has, we don't, have you not noticed that. To suggest that capitalism is largely responsible for their gun ownership and deaths by guns is absurd.

[Titehead]

err... so why is this her fault then canary?

[chaptazbru]

This is a sad day indeed.

[emmie]

it is.

[LazyGun]

Take a read of this article, from Gabrielle Giffords - Remember the Senator shot in the head? - Commenting on this voting down the background checks legislation by the Senate. Powerful piece.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/18/opinion/a-senate-in-the-gun-lobbys-grip.html?hp&_r=0

From the article;
"SENATORS say they fear the N.R.A. and the gun lobby. But I think that fear must be nothing compared to the fear the first graders in Sandy Hook Elementary School felt as their lives ended in a hail of bullets. The fear that those children who survived the massacre must feel every time they remember their teachers stacking them into closets and bathrooms, whispering that they loved them, so that love would be the last thing the students heard if the gunman found them."

[DTCwordfan]

What did I say when Connecticut broke.....not a cat-in-hells chance forcing it through both Houses, some modification at the edges perhaps.

[Clanad]

As to the discussion about background checks... some are badly misinformed since compulsory background checks are already required and have been since 1993 here in the U.S.. Additionally, in 1968 President Lyndon Johnson signed the Gun Control Act, which oulawed mail-order purchases of shotguns and rifles.

Today, very few firearms (either handguns or long guns) can be purchased without the buyer undergoing a thorough back ground check overseen by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.

But... here's the real crux of the problem... the shootings in Sandy Hook, Tucson (Gabrielle Giffords as well as Aurora, Colorado movie theatre shooting) were all carried out by perpetrators having known, severe mental problems and used firearms that had been legally purchased (including background checks) by the actual owners. The kid in Sandy Hook killed his mother, who owned the guns, before proceeding to the school... same holds true with each of the others.
Even the Senators that proposed the failed gun law stated that nothing in their proposed legislation would have prevented any of the above referenced shootings.
The other problem has been briefly touched on... that being the criminals are not going to comply with any of the laws now inforce, much less an "expanded" background chek law.

A lot of gunowners here in the U.S. look at the history of gun laws in other countries... especially England and see the result... almost total banning of ownership (plus severe penalties for anyone actually using a firearm in self-defense). Look no further than Australia...

So the "Wild West" view that most Europeans have of the U.S. isn't true and certanly isn't fair. One needn't look furhter than to see where the U.K. "Violent Crime" statistics place England, et al, in the world's standing of violent crime. I, personally, believe that can be attributed in large part to the inability of the ordinary citizen to defend themselves... but I'm willing to listen to a well reasoned argument to the contrary...

[jake-the-peg]

You're arguing that there should not be compulsory background checks in all states so that criminals cannot just buy guns?

Why?

None of the things you say address that

It may not stop the problem but that's no reason not to try