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Getting Things In Perspective
An awful lot of hot air has been expended about UKIP in the last 24 hours, and its worrying Cameron to death. But if we look at the actual numbers involved, perhaps it will help to calm things down a bit ::
The Tories and the LibDems lost 459 Councillors between them, and the Tories actually lost 10 Councils. Labour gained 291 seats and two Councils.
But UKIP only won 139 seats and still do not control any Councils. They also still haven't won a single Westminster seat and it doesn't look as they are likely to. Even if they do, the total is likely to be able to be counted on the fingers of one hand.
To listen to Farage you could be forgiven for thinking that he had achieved a victory on Thursday in line with 1945 or 1997 !
His party may well help to see the end of Cameron and our so-called Coalition Government in 2015 but UKIP are unlikely to achieve anything beyond a place for disaffected voters with a racist tendency to vent their bluster.
The Tories and the LibDems lost 459 Councillors between them, and the Tories actually lost 10 Councils. Labour gained 291 seats and two Councils.
But UKIP only won 139 seats and still do not control any Councils. They also still haven't won a single Westminster seat and it doesn't look as they are likely to. Even if they do, the total is likely to be able to be counted on the fingers of one hand.
To listen to Farage you could be forgiven for thinking that he had achieved a victory on Thursday in line with 1945 or 1997 !
His party may well help to see the end of Cameron and our so-called Coalition Government in 2015 but UKIP are unlikely to achieve anything beyond a place for disaffected voters with a racist tendency to vent their bluster.
Answers
UKIP are in the fine position of being able to promise lots of things they know they cannot deliver. The Tories best approach, when it comes to the general Election is simply to explain to people that a UKIP vote is a wasted vote, which given our (non-AV) voting system it will be. Actually Labour didn't do badly at all in the recent elections, especially bearing...
07:52 Sun 05th May 2013
so all those who voted have right leaning tendencies, racists to boot, what if many were core Labour voters, would you say the same. Farage as i pointed out is doing what he does and well, that is to say what many of the population think and sometimes want to say, that immigration is a problem, that it's been out of control for a long while, that the Tories, lib dems have lost the plot, specifically over the EU, and the economy hasn't recovered, so why is it a surprise they did reasonably well, Cameron should have been worried long ago about this. Instead he has been pussy footing around with matters that were not urgent, could have waited for a later time, instead he looks increasingly marginalised not least by his own party. The coalition have made some tough and in some cases completely wrong decisions, and many that have been made weren't kept, U turns abound. Time to take heed of Farage, he may be a buffoon to some, and some of his followers are likely to be right wing nationalists, but not all, and for that Cameron should take note. They look completely like upper class out of touch nobs, whilst the likes of Farage do not, popular and populist as i mentioned before...
In two years time, I think that history will bear me out em. Tories out and Labour in. And UKIP with little or no seats in Westminster. All that they will have achieved is banging a few more nails into Cameron's coffin.
Also, racists come from all different political backgrounds, even Labour but they are mostly uneducated though.
Farage himself has stated over and over that UKIP has no chance of winning in a General Election, so I can't see the point in voting for them in the first place. It makes as much sense as voting for the Greens !
Voting for parties like his must be rather like peeing yourself while wearing dark-coloured trousers....it might give you a warm feeling but it is essentially a private pleasure.
Also, racists come from all different political backgrounds, even Labour but they are mostly uneducated though.
Farage himself has stated over and over that UKIP has no chance of winning in a General Election, so I can't see the point in voting for them in the first place. It makes as much sense as voting for the Greens !
Voting for parties like his must be rather like peeing yourself while wearing dark-coloured trousers....it might give you a warm feeling but it is essentially a private pleasure.
Interesting that in your long post, em10, you just mention in passing that the economy hasn't recovered. One would think that sensible people would be focusing on that fact as the prime consideration in any election, and yet it seems voters have focused instead of empty rhetoric about immigration, and leaving the EU, and chosen to vote a party that openly admits it has no coherent manifesto, and is considering buying one from an outside agency.
Anyone who continues your stance over UKIP mikey4444 has obviously misjudged the mood of the electorate in England, who are obviously fed up of half truths, broken promises and cronyism and are looking for a new approach, which the 'main' parties no longer provide.
Farage at least has an air of honesty and straightforwardness about him and calls it as he sees it. It seems many in England concur with his views.
Farage at least has an air of honesty and straightforwardness about him and calls it as he sees it. It seems many in England concur with his views.
actually i reckon the issue of gay marriage which has divided as many as it's not, should have been left to a time when items on the table, the economy specific and immigration which is not a little matter, could have been considered and in some parts sorted, however Cameron is being led to a degree by someone who has his own agenda, and the alliance with Clegg is not a good one, it wasn't from the start, it's made Cameron look foolish and Clegg an unwanted guest at the party.
The economy is the main part of Cameron's problem, he/they should have kicked it back to life, but currently it's stagnant and not likely to improve significantly in the near future.
The economy is the main part of Cameron's problem, he/they should have kicked it back to life, but currently it's stagnant and not likely to improve significantly in the near future.
mikey, so you have now consigned many labour voters as uneducated, that is so very wrong. What makes you think you know more than they, or that there aren't many well educated, intelligent people who vote Labour, and have done for years, i have known plenty of them in my time, and still do.
I think that it is likely Milliband if he is still party leader in 2015 will become PM, i don't necessarily think it's because he is such a sterling example of leader in waiting, more than the ineptitude of the current administration will see him take the crown. We are a very fickle people in our politics, and like greedy children want it now, change now, fix now, well of course life isn't like that is it?
I think that it is likely Milliband if he is still party leader in 2015 will become PM, i don't necessarily think it's because he is such a sterling example of leader in waiting, more than the ineptitude of the current administration will see him take the crown. We are a very fickle people in our politics, and like greedy children want it now, change now, fix now, well of course life isn't like that is it?
You,Mikey,are one of the reasons Ukip are doing so well.
People who are concerned about immigration have,for too long, been branded as racists & bigots.
Too late, even the Labour Party are now paying lip service to those concerns. Years of sneering contempt from a metropolitan elite and their self serving acolytes has left people disillusioned with the other parties.
Actually, even the other lefties on here acknowledge some of the problems inherent with mass immigration. Do open your mind, Mike, and have some empathy for those who are affected by it.
People who are concerned about immigration have,for too long, been branded as racists & bigots.
Too late, even the Labour Party are now paying lip service to those concerns. Years of sneering contempt from a metropolitan elite and their self serving acolytes has left people disillusioned with the other parties.
Actually, even the other lefties on here acknowledge some of the problems inherent with mass immigration. Do open your mind, Mike, and have some empathy for those who are affected by it.
UKIP is in the same position that the Lib Dems occupied last time, parties of protest with ill considered policies and empty promises.
They both said whatever people wanted to hear, and make promises they never expect to keep - remember poor old Glegg's "I apologise" speech?
With any luck, the Tories will heed this wake up call.
Having lived through several Labour governments, I don't want another, particularly as it would be run by the Trade Unions, who provide 80% of their funding, and are even now involved in candidate and staff selection.
It would be worse if Milliband was still there, as he is a trade union appointee, beating his far more able brother through Union support.
The unions have been kept in check for a long time, and are hungry for big pay rises.
If you want borrowing & spending, leading to the bankruptcy they left behind them at least twice, just keep wearing the blindfold, brothers!
They both said whatever people wanted to hear, and make promises they never expect to keep - remember poor old Glegg's "I apologise" speech?
With any luck, the Tories will heed this wake up call.
Having lived through several Labour governments, I don't want another, particularly as it would be run by the Trade Unions, who provide 80% of their funding, and are even now involved in candidate and staff selection.
It would be worse if Milliband was still there, as he is a trade union appointee, beating his far more able brother through Union support.
The unions have been kept in check for a long time, and are hungry for big pay rises.
If you want borrowing & spending, leading to the bankruptcy they left behind them at least twice, just keep wearing the blindfold, brothers!
The thing with UKIP is they have probably gone as far as they can in terms of percentage of the people who voted (which, let's not forget, was 23% of 30-odd percent in this case)
They cannot possibly advance much further unless they adopt some sensible, or at least less broader-appeal policies. There are only so many people in the country who swallow the nonsense that the country's problems will instantly be solved by leaving the EU, or that, somehow, UKIP are "different" from the other parties in terms of honesty and reliability. That is also hogwash. Even if you don't think some of them are "fruitcakes" neither are they paragons of virtue. They don't have any "baggage" though, largely speaking.
I reckon myself that Farage doesn't really see UKIP going a lot further. I think he hopes to push the Tories to the right and take it from there, but we'll see.
It is interesting to listen to some of the beaten Tory candidates looking wistfully after the party that many of them lost to ...
They cannot possibly advance much further unless they adopt some sensible, or at least less broader-appeal policies. There are only so many people in the country who swallow the nonsense that the country's problems will instantly be solved by leaving the EU, or that, somehow, UKIP are "different" from the other parties in terms of honesty and reliability. That is also hogwash. Even if you don't think some of them are "fruitcakes" neither are they paragons of virtue. They don't have any "baggage" though, largely speaking.
I reckon myself that Farage doesn't really see UKIP going a lot further. I think he hopes to push the Tories to the right and take it from there, but we'll see.
It is interesting to listen to some of the beaten Tory candidates looking wistfully after the party that many of them lost to ...
I know from experience that the Conservative party can and do break their election promises.
I know exactly the same about the Labour party.
I know exactly the same about the Liberals although to be fair they are not really in a position to insist that Cameron keeps the promises they made.
I don't know any such thing about UKIP. All I do know is they are talking about the 2 major issues that concern me and lot's of the people I know.
So therefore, although I had resigned myself to never voting in an election again, I will be voting for UKIP at the next election.
If this is regarded by anbody on here or elsewhere as a protest vote then I don't really care.
I know exactly the same about the Labour party.
I know exactly the same about the Liberals although to be fair they are not really in a position to insist that Cameron keeps the promises they made.
I don't know any such thing about UKIP. All I do know is they are talking about the 2 major issues that concern me and lot's of the people I know.
So therefore, although I had resigned myself to never voting in an election again, I will be voting for UKIP at the next election.
If this is regarded by anbody on here or elsewhere as a protest vote then I don't really care.
Under the current Electoral system UKIP doesn't have a chance of winning, though they can still make a huge dent in the Conservative vote if enough people on the Right believe it's worth trying. At the same time, though, Labour doesn't seem to be a viable alternative for those in the Centre -- Ed Miliband is pretty useless, for a start -- but the Liberal Democrats are hardly going to be credible either. It's difficult to see how they can claim any success coming into 2015, at least to the public at large. An economic recovery will be a Conservative success; and yet more bad news could well be seen as a LibDem failure. So who will those in the left and centre turn to?
It's an open question, but I can easily see the "other" vote growing significantly in 2015, with UKIP picking up most of the right, and possibly the Green Party growing on the left. We may be stuck with another hung Parliament... Coalition of the right perhaps?
It's an open question, but I can easily see the "other" vote growing significantly in 2015, with UKIP picking up most of the right, and possibly the Green Party growing on the left. We may be stuck with another hung Parliament... Coalition of the right perhaps?
ChillDoubt...your comments might have some validity if the turn out wasn't so low on Thursday. On average, only 31% of people turned out to vote. Put another way, 69% didn't bother to vote at all, for UKIP or anyone else. UKIP took 23% of this 31% turnout.
Lets try some simple sums shall we ? Only about 7.1% of British people who voted on Thursday, voted for UKIP......hardly a landslide is it ?
When dealing with politics, you ignore plain arithmetic at your peril !
Lets try some simple sums shall we ? Only about 7.1% of British people who voted on Thursday, voted for UKIP......hardly a landslide is it ?
When dealing with politics, you ignore plain arithmetic at your peril !
Voting UKIP members in as Councillors makes no sense whatsoever. Local politics have no input into the immigration debate. So I am puzzled why anybody would vote for UKIP, on an anti-immigration stance ?
In order to change things in a democracy like ours, you have to get into Parliament with sufficient numbers in order to bring your policies to a point where they can be debated and eventually voted on. UKIP stand no chance whatsoever of getting the 260+ MPs elected that is needed. Even Farage himself, in some brief and rare moments of lucidity admits that simple fact.
So get used to it...UKIP is no more than a single issue protest vote.
Again its arithmetic that counts !
In order to change things in a democracy like ours, you have to get into Parliament with sufficient numbers in order to bring your policies to a point where they can be debated and eventually voted on. UKIP stand no chance whatsoever of getting the 260+ MPs elected that is needed. Even Farage himself, in some brief and rare moments of lucidity admits that simple fact.
So get used to it...UKIP is no more than a single issue protest vote.
Again its arithmetic that counts !
There is nothing whatsoever contemptuous about my last post. Britain's voting system may not be perfect but all parties have the same chance of success. Nothing I have written in this post is remotely funny, just facts. Numbers don't lie !
I fail to understand why some here on AB can't see the simple arithmetic involved. UKIP made a lot of noise and I expect they have plenty left to make but they still won't get into Parliament !
I fail to understand why some here on AB can't see the simple arithmetic involved. UKIP made a lot of noise and I expect they have plenty left to make but they still won't get into Parliament !
ichkeria...I wasn't aware of UKIPs stance on smoking in public places, and quite frankly, I didn't believe it. But you were right !
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I realise that there are some here on AB wil think I am being contemptuous again, because I don't agree with them but if anyone is still not quite sure why UKIP are being called fruitcakes, etc, then look no further than this plan to allow smoking again in Pubs.
Here in Wales, according to the Welsh Health Survey, only 23% of adults now admit to smoking. The WHS has been going for 10 years and 1000's of people are interviewed every year, so the figure should be robust. The figure of 23% has come down since the smoking ban was implemented. Sorry to bring simple arithmetic into the discussion again, but, in other words, 77% people DON'T smoke.
A phrase with frogs and boxes comes to mind !
http://
I realise that there are some here on AB wil think I am being contemptuous again, because I don't agree with them but if anyone is still not quite sure why UKIP are being called fruitcakes, etc, then look no further than this plan to allow smoking again in Pubs.
Here in Wales, according to the Welsh Health Survey, only 23% of adults now admit to smoking. The WHS has been going for 10 years and 1000's of people are interviewed every year, so the figure should be robust. The figure of 23% has come down since the smoking ban was implemented. Sorry to bring simple arithmetic into the discussion again, but, in other words, 77% people DON'T smoke.
A phrase with frogs and boxes comes to mind !
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