Luton Suffers Nine Shootings In Four Month Crime Wave.

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2324949/Armed-officers-patrol-streets-LUTON-stop-dangerous-shoot-outs-feuding-gangs.html

/// Bedfordshire Police have also invoked Section 60 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994, allowing them to stop and search without suspicion. ///

Will others now agree with me that our country is becoming much more increasingly dangerous, than it once was?

Because this kind of thing 'NEVER' happened in my day.

[Octavius]

Hmm, we would really need to know when your 'day' was in order to compare, but I feel as safe today as I did when I was a young lad.

[jim360]

I gave some statistics earlier which apparently supported your position up until around about 2003 -- since then violent crime rates have started to fall.

[friedgreentomato]

When was your day AOG?

[LazyGun]

We can all agree that there is a specific problem in Luton, sure. We can all agree that gangs of criminals shooting at each other is a real problem which needs countering. So parts of our country, where gangs are fighting each other over territory and organised crime are becoming increasingly dangerous, I will agree.

But I personally feel as safe now as I did when I was younger, or when I was a child - and I live about 40 minutes or so away from Luton, routinely travel all over London and various areas of the Home Counties, lncluding travel to some of these allegedly more dangerous neighbourhoods - and still feel as safe as I ever did.

Not very happy at seeing the local news reports though- which showed armed coppers patrolling the streets. Were I a local resident, that would certainly add to my fear that events were out of control.

[jno]

ah, but in your day, white gangs were dropping bombs on Luton, so there was no need for the locals to add their pennyworth. (And in the post-WW1 celebrations the locals burnt down the town hall, but that was possibly before your time.)

Much more dangerous now? 107 died there in WW2 air raids.

[Orderlimit]

Jim, 2002/03 was roughly when the policy for police forces recording crime changed and went on to be significantly abused to make their performances appear better.

[jim360]

Yes, OL -- and records before then were 100% honest?

We've seen in the case of Jimmy Saville that not all crimes, even horrific ones, get reported honestly. I don't see that changing for a while, there will always be unreported crimes. It's pure cynicism to assume that the police lying about it started only ten years ago.

There are two things I think it is safe to say:

1) Crime rates fluctuate over time.
2) Crimes rates overall are relatively stable.

In this case, we have seen over the 50 years following WWII, or so, an apparent rise in violent crime. That rise did not continue before then indefinitely. Otherwise, logically, AOG's day was much more dangerous than a generation or so previously in kind.

It appears to be the case that crime rates are falling of late. That's not entirely unreasonable. Things don't continually get worse.

[FredPuli43]

Surely the concern is not whether more or less crime or whether there are fewer murders, but whether there is more of a type of crime. It would be foolish to believe that British criminals didn't shoot one another years ago; the old joke was that Soho was extremely safe for visitors because the locals only shot one another, not the visitors who supported their vice and other businesses. But an increase in gangs shooting anybody is a worry and should be commented on and stopped.

By the way,isn't it cheering that we think the sight of armed police officers is disconcerting? The sight of them at airports concerns me; I have to tell myself that that is to reassure foreigners, who expect it.

[LazyGun]

I would agree with all of this 100% Fred

"But an increase in gangs shooting anybody is a worry and should be commented on and stopped.

By the way,isn't it cheering that we think the sight of armed police officers is disconcerting? The sight of them at airports concerns me; I have to tell myself that that is to reassure foreigners, who expect it"

[Orderlimit]

The trouble is Jim, prior to say 2002, the police recorded crime in a way that did not need to be internally adjusted for performance stats, (known as the 'Evidential approach), and commonly only 'detected, 'detectable' or serious offences were actually recorded.

After the introduction of the new system (known as the Prima facie approach), ALL reported crime had to be recorded which then showed up the poor performance hence internal manipulation started.

[FredPuli43]

So,even under the old system, murders and shootings would have been recorded, being 'serious crimes'. That's reassuring. It means we can compare then and now over quite some period. Whether the results of that exercise are reassuring is another matter

[jim360]

Even allowing for manipulation which undoubtedly goes on, it's hard to hide murders to the extent that they are dropping significantly year-on-year. Also it isn't just police statistics that suggest a fall in crime recently -- and an apparent rise prior to that.

[sp1814]

AOG

I will promise to agree with you, if you promise never to use the phrase 'much more increasingly' again.

[anotheoldgit]

jim360

/// It appears to be the case that crime rates are falling of late. That's not entirely unreasonable. Things don't continually get worse. ///

So a need for one police officer armed solely with a truncheon in which to patrol an area, then that number is increased to two police officers wearing stab vests, armed with batons and taser guns, to three police officers armed with assault rifles and baton guns and leading a police dog.

Well things are definitely not getting better but very much worse.

[anotheoldgit]

Regardless of your age, any one of you remember seeing such a thing as you walked to school?

Also 'once upon a time' one was quite safe walking to school on one's own.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/15/article-2324949-19C8D97B000005DC-422_634x413.jpg

[ummmm]

AOG - my kids walk to school. 2.5 miles each way....on their own. What point are you trying make?

[Zeuhl]

/Well things are definitely not getting better but very much worse./

Were are your crime statistics to support that aog

'In God we trust - everyone else brings facts'

Why would you imagine your generation being in charge post war would have led to things getting worse?

- after all you'd already overseen a period 1939-44 when thousands were being killed all over the country