British and muslim?? that is the question

[splange]

I speak as somebody who has marched on three anti war marches and I can't help but wonder how many of the bomb victims were against the war, probably quite a few, most of the country were. But that cuts no ice with these Islamic murderers and as a result of the London mass murders I have pulled the liberal wool from my eyes. In a recent interview with a group of young muslim men, born, bred and educated in England, they were asked to describe what could have motivated the bombers and they replied, 'Iraq' that their 'brothers and sisters' were being killed over there. Are we, fellow Britons, not their brothers and sisters too? Or does the British credential only kick in when there is something beneficial on the end of it? Is there no sense of community with anybody outside their muslim faith? And if the answer to that is no, then why don't they reunite themselves with their brothers and conduct their war from where they obviously feel their heart belongs. William Joyce, Lord Haw Haw was regarded, quite rightly as a traitor, why should this be different?

[MargeB]

I think I saw the interview you describe, and I was more than a little shocked by it. His friend then went on to insist that the suicide bombers be counted among the dead, since they were victims too, and prophesized to the interviewer that there would be 'another in 6 months'.

I'm going to crack if some other fool comes on TV to tell us that the suicide bombers belonged to an 'isolated pocket of extremists.' Not all muslims are terrorists, but they need to get their house in order.

Unfortunately the recent incidents will serve to accentuate differences and the strength of opinion.

[splange]

The other thing that strikes me as odd is that the only muslim voice we hear is the male one and whenever you see people attending mosques it is men. Have they initiated some quasi sexual war where women cannot be seen or heard? Islam certainly seems to be a faith of exclusion judging by its spokespersons.

[Zen]

Ever seen a female spokesperson on behalf of the Vatican ?

[Peter Pedant]

Sister Wendy was an art critic - which is almost the vatican - i mean they have a lot of art there.

[El D]

To a great extent I agree - the brotherhood of religion will always be superior to that of nationality because of the factors involved. This is a point I have driven towards yet been reluctant to embrace given the potential fallout - whatever their standing or outlook, Muslims will always look upon other Muslims with more understanding and compassion than other religions and nationalities. Their faith binds them beyond mere 'mortal' concerns. It is an instictive human reaction to side with those who have the most common ground, and amongst British Mulisms, who comprise a distinct minority, any Muslim is an 'ally' over and above the man on the street in spite of his shared nationality. They both believe in Allah - there can be no faith in the Union Jack beyond this life. . . I would suggest, having seen several such examples and having first hand reports of young asians taunting white citizens with the pleas that 'We're not terrorists!' (a racial insult as far as I'm concerned) that the Muslim community does itself no favours in Britain.

Being a minority does not excuse oneself from partaking of society as expected of a civilised being.

[Romeo]

I can see your disillusion with the anti-war cause, splange, but try to remember the reasons for the anti-war marches. The anti-war protestors said that, if Britain enters the war in Iraq, it would make Britain a target for Islamic extremist terrorists. Well, that is exactly what happened, isn't it? Perhaps we should pull our troops out before things get any worse.

But I certainly agree that the Islamic terrorists have no respect for anyone. In their bungled bomb jobs they actually kill other Muslims.

[splange]

Their faith blinds them, isn’t this by its nature, contradictory? Isn’t the point of religion, enlightenment? I was blind now I can see? Shouldn’t religion be all embracing, merciful, forgiving? I know they are huge demands to make on any human being, but not for those supposedly devout. If Islam reduces the world to monochrome, then it is left dancing on a pinhead, no future, no past, little surface. Also, to Romeo, I do remember the reasons for the anti war marches and for me, they weren’t about let’s not go to war because we might come under fire. I disagreed and continue to do so with the war in Iraq, because it is and was wrong. However it seems the Islamic terrorists want no alignment/ share no common ground with anti war demonstrators, if they did they would never have kidnapped the two French journalists, a country who vehemently refused to sanction the war. Nor would they have kidnapped and murdered the aid worker Margaret Hassan, a woman who lived in Iraq for 30 years, devoted herself to its people, converted to Islam and took up Iraqi citizenship. Finally, Zen, there are a million failings with organised religions, pick holes in all of them but in answer to your answer your question; Mother Theresa, Sister Rosemary, Saint Bernadette. The catholic church (for all its sins and there are plenty) may well be one of the few religions who regularly worships a woman; Mary. Even a prostitute gets a good mention.

[jean88]

If the 2 world leaders had handled Iraq in a different way (avoid war) the world would be a better place.

I agreed that the terrorist had no excuses to do what they did to innocent lives.

[AllYourBase]

I'd like to point out that this is a cultural issue, not a racial issue. Muslims as a culture will always see their own culture as different to the "British" culture. Afro-Carribbeans, Hinuds and Sikhs have a basic culture that is similar to the whole british culture, therefore it mixes better. There is no issue of colour, it all comes down to culture. This is what causes the feelings you describe above and the words said in interviews. We need to accept this without the fear of being branded "racist" as race does not come into it.

[luckyboy]

Splange, may i congratulate you on an excellent post.

And say i couldn't agree more with you.

And jean even if the iraq "issue'' had been handled better it would have made no difference to these prophets of satan, britain would still have been attacked as one day i grant you anti war france will be too.

[Paddymanc]

I agree this is an issue. I think our tolerance levels have dipped to low when we can allow a UK citizen to basically condone such an atrocity.....lock them or chuck them out, either way you cannot allow this.

[umayah]

It's funny you should talk about culture, Islam is a religion with many cultures.  You can have English, Pakistani, American, Black African, North African, Middle Eastern, Chinese, Russian, Bosnian, Indian...Need I go on.  the point I'm trying to make is that when you put all muslims in one pot its extremely unfair.  Every single muslim comes from a different country with their own culture and values.  Just like any other person in this world.  to beleive in one god doesn't mean that I believe in all the other values that my fellow muslim also has.  We as people (i'm not just talking about muslims here) make our own minds up about whats right and whats wrong. 

Just to talk about the London bombings, Its neither correct nor justifiable in any religion or any belief what happened.  In Islam their are rules of war and there has to be a context for this b/v.  Killing innocents is a crime and these men who did this are certainly not martyrs.

[jean88]

I agreed with umayah, he knows what he is talking about, I think a lot of people dont really understand the situation because lack of personal experience and knowledge of other culture. ( friends and relative who is muslim or other culture)