Older People Have Never Had It So Good

[Gromit]

// Pensioners in their 60s and 70s have seen their incomes rise steadily during the recession years - and now they are less likely to be poor than any other group in society, according to a new report.

A senior Church of England cleric, Bishop of London the Right Reverend Richard Chartres, said the ‘fortunate generation’ in their 60s are soaking up too much taxpayers’ money and that state spending on older people ‘raises questions of intergenerational equity’. //

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2341553/Older-people-good-New-report-says-60s-seen-incomes-rise-recession.html#ixzz2WYp1jtcy

Why are we still paying £billions to them to pay for free travel and winter fuel, which were after all, just Tony Blair's election bribes?

[jomifl]

£130 per week if you are lucky....half the minumum wage..you wouldn't want to be in rented accommodation or paying £2000 p.a. in rates.

[mikey4444]

I turned 60 recently and now have a bus pass. I don't expect I shall use it much as I prefer to drive most places. Its quicker by car and I can take my dog as well.

I have worked all my adult life, starting as an apprentice with the GPO a few weeks past my 16 birthday, and I don't see any reason why I should apologise for having this rather modest "perk" As I have always paid my share of income tax, and Council Tax, I feel that I have done more than enough to justify it.

The situation may not be the same in 20-30 years time however, as all these lazy people who can't seem to find any work and prefer to spend all their lives scrounging off the State will get their "perks" without putting much in the system at all.

Anyway, Blair was elected democratically three time in succession, so I'm not sure why the Daily Mail should be kicking up such a stink. The free Bus Pass will go to everybody who quailfys regardless of how they voted.

[ludwig]

Most of them will have paid into the system all their working life, and in so doing supported the previous generation of pensioners.

It seems reasonable that we in turn now support them, instead of viewing them as an inconvienient drain on the taxpayer.

[LoftyLottie]

Thank you Ludwig. A vast amount of pensioners can barely survive on their state pensions - and when we were young company pensions were not classed as essential and a lot of us oldies have no company pensions whatsoever.

I have a free bus pass, but unfortunately there are no buses where I live ;o)

[mikey4444]

Usual Daily Mail drivel I see.

I turned 60 recently and now have a bus pass. I don't expect I shall use it much as I prefer to drive most places. Its quicker by car and I can take my dog as well.

I have worked all my adult life, starting as an apprentice with the GPO a few weeks past my 16 birthday, and I don't see any reason why I should apologise for having this rather modest "perk" As I have always paid my share of income tax, and Council Tax, I feel that I have done more than enough to justify it.

The situation may not be the same in 20-30 years time however, as all these lazy people who can't seem to find any work and prefer to spend all their lives scrounging off the State will get their "perks" without putting much in the system at all. Not only that, they can spend their whole lives not working and they will still get the Old Age Pension when they retire, as working people will.

Anyway, Blair was elected democratically three time in succession, so I'm not sure why the Daily Mail should be kicking up such a stink. The free Bus Pass will go to everybody who qualifies, regardless of how they voted. I didn't notice a queue of wealthy Tory voters lining up to give their Bus Passes or Winter Fuel Allowance back when I was at County Hall last week.

[jake-the-peg]

Reasonable as it may seem Ludwig it may be unsustainable

The number of older people is rising , birth rates are falling and people are kicking up about immigration which is the only other thing that can address the balance.

That model worked while older people could only expect to live 10 years or so past retirement and while they were a minority


Cut Pensions, increase taxation or increase immigration - your choice

[mikey4444]

Sorry...I see my post has been submitted twice...must have buggered up somewhere ! Apologies all round.

[LazyGun]

It is a good job at least one sector of the economy has some money to spend, otherwise there is no telling just how bad the situation might be :)

Not sure that Winter Fuel Payments should be seen as a bribe - a lot of older people were dying of hypothermia -related issues, and we should surely be outraged at that. Buses too have an important social function, especially in more rural areas of Britain, and were you to phase out free bus passes you may very well impact upon the quantity and quality of the rural bus service, so it is not something to be entered into lightly.

Any changes should not be applied retrospectively either. Going forward though, it does seem farcical that many pensioners are receiving such benefits when they plainly have no need for them, having an income that could comfortably absorb such costs themselves. so such benefits should either be something you can opt out of, or alternatively should be considered as a taxable perk, rather like a company car or a mobile phone often is for a company salesman. Then those that need them would get them, and those that are financially secure would be taxed for them...

[Baldric]

I got a Bus Pass earlier this year, my OH insisted I apply for one as it sounded as if they might be withdrawn at the time. Why she thinks I need one I don't know, I'm never going to use it, if I can't drive past the queues at Bus stops, I'll go past them in a taxi, it's bad enough having to use the train every now and again, but Buses?

[Gromit]

Pensioners coped without free travel passes and winter fuel payments for decades. Maybe the current generation of pensioners are just soft.

Blair introduced them when we were much better off economically. They were election bribes. A decade later and we are still saddled with this drain on resources. But Cameron is frightened of a pensioners backlash, so he can't cut it. Meanwhile stagecoach and the electric and gas utility companies are making vast profits from these needless subsidies.

[sandyRoe]

Was it Thatcher who said: 'A man who finds himself on a bus after the age of 26 can consider himself a failure.'?
If I didn't use my bus pass I'd have to walk.

[mikey4444]

Jake. There is a very simple way to be afford lots of things in Britain today, from Libraries to the Old Age Pension, and we don't even have to have an election to do it.

Cancel the replacement program for Trident. Its as simple as that. The vast majority of nations on this planet seem to manage perfectly well without nuclear weapons, and I'm not sure why we can't as well. No savage cuts to the old and disabled need be applied.

[ummmm]

It was easy to cope without a buspass when family were close by and all your shopping could be done in the high street.

[237SJ]

LG - "If you were to phase out the free bus passes, you may very well impact upon the quantity and quality of the rural bus service". Free bus passes have very nearly crippled the rural bus service as the buses have to ferry pensioners around the countryside free of charge. My old village has a caravan park up the road where people have (obviously) driven to. When they want a day in town though, they leave their cars with the caravan and use their free bus pass. Rural bus services are really struggling because the distances they cover are quite great, not many people use them and those that do go for free. I think free bus passes are great as they are a motivator for older people to get out and have contact with the real world but they do have their drawbacks for some bus companies.

[ummmm]

And buses are not that cheap. I caught a bus into town because I was running late and it cost £1.60 and that was traveling under a mile.

[chrisgel]

//Why are we still paying £billions to them to pay for free travel and winter fuel, which were after all, just Tony Blair's election bribes?//

This coming from the same person who a short time ago was saying that we should be proud of what we pay out in foreign aid.

£137 per person according to Factors link in the same thread.

[Gromit]

Chrisgel

The world's poor need the money. Pensioners don't need this subsidy. It is relatively new and costs £billions for people who don't need it.

[LazyGun]

Yes, pensioners may have "coped" without free bus passes and a winter fuel allowance for decades, but that does not make either wrong or an unaffordable luxury now, and it is needlessly and excessively cynical to dismiss winter fuel allowances especially as an electoral bribe, given the sheer number of excess winter deaths of the elderly the Uk had - a rate which has been hugely reduced as a consequence of the introduction of the winter fuel allowance together with initiatives to provide better and affordable schemes for home insulation etc.

If you want to reduce state expenditure, look to where there is a lot of excess fat and trim that, rather than implementing measures that needlessly penalise some of the most vulnerable in our society. I really am quite surprised and dismayed at the cynicism of your attitude, Gromit.

As for free bus passes - the bus company claim the cost of the fare back from the local council, don't they? So they are getting paid per passenger or whatever - stop free bus passes, you will reduce the numbers of people taking the journey, making the service uneconomical, leading the bus companies to cut the service, further isolation old age pensioners, many of whom may not, through illness or desire, be able to drive or otherwise travel.

I do think they should be a taxed benefit, but I would fundamentally disagree with withdrawing such benefits, especially given the fact that we could save a damn sight more by cutting back or removing completely something like Trident, for instance....

[McMouse]

//Older People Have Never Had It So Good//

I'm in my 70's and do not expect to have more than two or three meaningful years left before I pop my clogs. I'm still paying income tax and have an unbroken employment record going back to 1958. So I get winter fuel allowance, a bus pass and free prescriptions and eye tests. When Mrs McM and I shuffle off the tax man and charity will pick up significantly more than I have ever taken out.

[ludwig]

// Cut Pensions, increase taxation or increase immigration - your choice //

Thanks. I'll go for increase taxation and throw in another option of reducing benefits for people who can work but choose not to.