Whistle Blower Flees To Russia.

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2346765/Edward-Snowden-Whistleblower-left-Hong-Kong-Russia-help-Wikileaks-day-US-charges-spying.html

Is Edward Snowden a traitor, or should he be admired for exposing evidence of a global surveillance regime conducted by US and UK intelligence agencies?

[jim360]

It's a bit odd, isn't it? Fear massive state surveillance -- run away to Russia. Right...

[Peter Pedant]

He fled to a Chinese territory and now will land in Russia in a few minutes
which kind a makes it difficult (in view of human rights abuses of both countries ) to say he is an upholder of freedom

[chrisgel]

I would suggest that at the moment he's trying to uphold his own freedom.

[Clanad]

Problem is (full disclosure, I'm U.S. citizen), it apppears the adventur is being financed by Wikileaksand it's possible that he's being primed for asylum in Cuba.

Look, most here in the U.S. are greatful for his disclosure... but, he could hav achieved the same results without involving China, Russia and possibly Cuba. In my personal opinion, he's an out and out traitor to his country and is either a paid spy (China) or in it for his 15 minutes of fame (and the money)...

[jno]

I doubt he'd be going to Russia if the Chinese were paying him, Clanad; why not just stay put in HK?

His disclosures don't seem to me to be "political" - in the sense of either party political, or of international relations. The initial revelations, after all, were of how the US and UK are spying on their own citizens, not on foreigners. I think we should all be grateful, but I don't expect the UK government, for one, is.

[237SJ]

I wonder if he`ll be flying in US airspace? If he is, and Aeroflot have discolsed his travel plans, they`re just inviting some nutter to make a bomb scare thus forcing the plane to land in the US where they can nab him.

[Peter Pedant]

Hey ! any ABer actually ON the flight ?

[237SJ]

No, but I`m going to Hong Kong this week. I`m a bit late though...

[Gromit]

Clanad

That is a bit of a contradictory answer

// most here in the U.S. are greatful for his disclosure... he's an out and out traitor to his country //

The reason he fled to China, and now Russia is to escape US juristiction. Not because he has any sympathies or affiliation with them. The revelation that the US Government was spying on its own citizens is hardly surprising. The fact that Google and others were handing over our data is.

No, he is not a traitor. Revealing that the US Government are stealing OUR data is a service he has done us all. He should be given a medal, not prosecuted.

[jomifl]

Gromit surely you didn't think google kept the information they have to themselves. Their business is selling information. I expect Uncle Sam got a generous discount. No electronic information is secure.

[anotheoldgit]

Agree with Gromit on this, he is obviously safe country hopping to escape the US security forces, next stop Iceland it would seem.

Yes that is hopping and not hoping, before anyone pulls me up for my incorrect spelling.

[Gromit]

Jomifl

Yes, Google's business is to sell data, not give it away.

They were obliged to hand the data over. They did not want to.

[Kevink]

Seems ironic that (considering that what he revealed was the massive levels of spying on their own citizens carried out by US and UK security agencies) the DOJ have accused him of spying.

[ichkeria]

I still don't understand the apparent contradiction between the fuss in Britain about the US "spying" on foreigners (only) and the fuss in the US about the US "spying" on its own citizens.

While I don't think it's a bad thing for a lot of this to some out into the open I don't think it's fair to say the US etc is spying on us all. And I am more comfortable with my data being in the hands of government - and in particular the US or British government, than I am with it being in the hands of Google Microsoft and co. Or, indeed, the governments of China, Russia, Venezuela etc.
If you want a spooky tale of surveillance and invasion of privacy read Luke Harding's book "Mafia State"...

[bednobs]

he's neither - he's just a wang

[ichkeria]

And it wouldn't surprise me if Mr Snowden had been "got at" by China or Russia.

Yoy could almost predict the list of counties queunig to "sign him up".
Who says the Cold War is over :-)

[modeller]

//all, were of how the US and UK are spying on their own citizens, not on foreigners.// Do you really believe that ? It would be impossible to separate them out anyway .

[jno]

ichkeria, at the risk of pre-empting anything Clanad may have to say, I think it's fair to say Americans are much more sceptical of government than we are - not just of politicians but of the whole idea of government; most will accept that it should spy on potentially hostile countries, but most will also want it not to intrude on their own lives. (Hence the considerable opposition to any sort of national health scheme.)

It's the meek British acceptance of being under constant surveillance that surprises me.

[Peter Pedant]

jno - it is not meek acceptance of something new
I think the Brits always knew they were in the camera's eye

[ichkeria]

Of course as I've said elsewhere just because the technology exists - and just because the data is collected - doesn't mean the government is actually spying on everyone. All sorts of data is collected. But, certainly in the case of the UK and I'd imagine the US too, you need a warrant to use that data against specific targets if they are your oen nationals.
The US is a strange apparent contradiction: huge flag-waving patriotism versus a great suspicion of the state as you say jno. Hence perhaps Clanad's seemingly clashing views.