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Suspended Sentence For Psession Of A Firearm And Ammunition
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So Danny Nightingale got off without serving time for posession of a pistol and over 300 rounds of ammunition.
The Judge said he didn't believe his defence, that he had impugned the reputation of another soldier and misled the public.
He also said he wanted to impose a custodial offence but could not
What on Earth went wrong with this case?
The Judge said he didn't believe his defence, that he had impugned the reputation of another soldier and misled the public.
He also said he wanted to impose a custodial offence but could not
What on Earth went wrong with this case?
Answers
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this is what the law says
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Hungerford and Dunblane were the reasons behind why we changed the laws on handguns though. I personally think anyone who has a hand gun might be quite innocent of any known wrongdoing - like the lady in someone's link who thought it was her father's war trophy. This man had 300 rounds of ammunition, which I find creepy, worrying and just plain wrong and tried to lie his way out of the consequences. He should have been jailed, if nothing else as a deterrent to other soldiers who think they too are above the law on this matter.
I could understand the excuse that he had the weapon as a souvenir, or trophy or whatever. That I could understand.
But 300 rounds of ammo?
What the hell was he thinking?
Would everyone be so understanding if it fell into the wrong hands (burglary) and it was then used to blow the head off a sub postmistress during a robbe...
...hang on - do sub postmistresses still exist???
But 300 rounds of ammo?
What the hell was he thinking?
Would everyone be so understanding if it fell into the wrong hands (burglary) and it was then used to blow the head off a sub postmistress during a robbe...
...hang on - do sub postmistresses still exist???
ToraToraTora
Hang on...had this been some scally lad on an kitchen sink estate, would you feel the same?
Also, think about it this way - if a mate of yours showed you a gun that he owned illegally, wouldn't your reaction be, "Be careful mate...don't let anyone know you have it!"
But if he showed you a gun and 300 bullets, wouldn't your reaction be, "For God's sake...what the hell do you think you're playing at? You'd better get rid of that"
Hang on...had this been some scally lad on an kitchen sink estate, would you feel the same?
Also, think about it this way - if a mate of yours showed you a gun that he owned illegally, wouldn't your reaction be, "Be careful mate...don't let anyone know you have it!"
But if he showed you a gun and 300 bullets, wouldn't your reaction be, "For God's sake...what the hell do you think you're playing at? You'd better get rid of that"
Military courts marshal are an anachronism-you're not expertly defended for a start (for my defence I had a nominated"friend" ,who was just a plod -case was chucked out by luck rather that legal skill.).
Danny Nightingale put his life on the line for us and no consideration given for that. He's suffered enough already-let him be.
When I think of the bus loads of Kalashnikof's that came back from Suez -One hung on the wall of a Plymouth pub for a year that I know of.
The military are on a hiding to nothing -if the military law don't get you the civil law will.
Good luck to him, Mac
Danny Nightingale put his life on the line for us and no consideration given for that. He's suffered enough already-let him be.
When I think of the bus loads of Kalashnikof's that came back from Suez -One hung on the wall of a Plymouth pub for a year that I know of.
The military are on a hiding to nothing -if the military law don't get you the civil law will.
Good luck to him, Mac
I'm angry because of the clear double standards being applied here.
Of course if you can find be an example of a civillian getting a suspended sentence for a similar offence I'll hapilly change my mind.
I've not even found a case of someone getting the 2 years the judge said he'd like to impose.
Maybe the law should be changed - It says 'exceptional cases' I've already listed some exceptional cases that were not deemed exceptional
Maybe it just needs to say the minimum stentence doesn't appliy to 'heroes'.
Of course if you can find be an example of a civillian getting a suspended sentence for a similar offence I'll hapilly change my mind.
I've not even found a case of someone getting the 2 years the judge said he'd like to impose.
Maybe the law should be changed - It says 'exceptional cases' I've already listed some exceptional cases that were not deemed exceptional
Maybe it just needs to say the minimum stentence doesn't appliy to 'heroes'.
The logic of this may seem a bit difficult to grasp. Let me try to help:
On 7th November 2012 Nightingale was sentenced to 18 months immediate custody after pleading guilty to the two possession offences.
On 20th November a special debate on the matter took place in the House of Commons. (I’ve no idea why an individual conviction and sentence should be the subject of a Commons debate, but there you go).
On 29th November the Court of Appeal reduced the imprisonment term to 12 months and suspended it. Nightingale was released.
On 13th March 2013 the Court of Appeal overturned his conviction (of 7th November) on the grounds that he had been put under undue pressure by the judge to plead guilty. They ordered that the original conviction be quashed, that Nightingale be allowed to re-enter his plea and that, if necessary, a trial should be held..
On 2nd July, following a Not Guilty plea, Nightingale’s trial began. On 10th July he was convicted by the court martial board and on 25th July he was handed the suspended sentence. It is the Court of Appeal’s decision on 29th November which Judge Jeff Blackett, the Judge Advocate General, felt constrained by in handing out the suspended sentence. The Court of Appeal had already heard all the evidence of the case and presumably nothing new was introduced at the trial. Whilst it is true that there was nothing to prevent him handing down an immediate custodial sentence it was clear to him that had Nightingale appealed the sentence would almost certainly have been reduced.
Interestingly, throughout all of this, there have been no howls of anguish from those who oppose trials without a jury. mac has already pointed out some of the deficiencies of the Court Martial system.
On 7th November 2012 Nightingale was sentenced to 18 months immediate custody after pleading guilty to the two possession offences.
On 20th November a special debate on the matter took place in the House of Commons. (I’ve no idea why an individual conviction and sentence should be the subject of a Commons debate, but there you go).
On 29th November the Court of Appeal reduced the imprisonment term to 12 months and suspended it. Nightingale was released.
On 13th March 2013 the Court of Appeal overturned his conviction (of 7th November) on the grounds that he had been put under undue pressure by the judge to plead guilty. They ordered that the original conviction be quashed, that Nightingale be allowed to re-enter his plea and that, if necessary, a trial should be held..
On 2nd July, following a Not Guilty plea, Nightingale’s trial began. On 10th July he was convicted by the court martial board and on 25th July he was handed the suspended sentence. It is the Court of Appeal’s decision on 29th November which Judge Jeff Blackett, the Judge Advocate General, felt constrained by in handing out the suspended sentence. The Court of Appeal had already heard all the evidence of the case and presumably nothing new was introduced at the trial. Whilst it is true that there was nothing to prevent him handing down an immediate custodial sentence it was clear to him that had Nightingale appealed the sentence would almost certainly have been reduced.
Interestingly, throughout all of this, there have been no howls of anguish from those who oppose trials without a jury. mac has already pointed out some of the deficiencies of the Court Martial system.
thanks for the summary, NJ. He was still a llucky boy, compared with what others have got for the same offence, though.
Fortunately, the judge was able to operate without your anti military bias
Missing the point a bit there, TTT. The judge said he'd tried to frame another SAS soldier as the owner. You don#t have any sympathy for this other soldier, then?
Fortunately, the judge was able to operate without your anti military bias
Missing the point a bit there, TTT. The judge said he'd tried to frame another SAS soldier as the owner. You don#t have any sympathy for this other soldier, then?
The defendant in any case above the trivial has the benefit of the Department of Army Legal Services which instructs counsel. I have defended in Germany, being shipped out for the purpose, soldiers charged with attempted murder, theft, unlawful sex with a minor, and even a drink-drive offence.
If anyone thinks the system is bad now; imagine being tried by lay magistrates for gbh with intent, because that is what court martials resemble, a magistrates court; you should have seen it before. Casual was not the word. I remember having conversations with the senior officer of the tribunal at adjournments; the prosecutor was there too; which struck me as unusual!
If anyone thinks the system is bad now; imagine being tried by lay magistrates for gbh with intent, because that is what court martials resemble, a magistrates court; you should have seen it before. Casual was not the word. I remember having conversations with the senior officer of the tribunal at adjournments; the prosecutor was there too; which struck me as unusual!
. Hi freddie -
Yeah I thought things had moved on since my father's day.
in POW camp, in 1942, his German captors insisted on a British Court martial when a prisoner attacked a guard - my father was an ex pat Sarth Efrican doctor (officer). The tommy had been stabbed with the German's bayonet in the buttocks, and my fathers defence turned on whether the Tommy could have attacked him buttocks first....
It was conducted in German - hence my father's involvement as interpreter and the surprising sticking point, was the allegation that the Tommy had also shouted: " Du bluttig Bastard !" which sounded terrible in German but in English was neither here or there
Bit of history for you.
Yeah in Danny N's case - I thought it was obvious that if the judge had not followed the ct of appeals advice, then it would have gone to appeal successfully....
I did wonder about lack of a jury but didnt howl about it
Yeah I thought things had moved on since my father's day.
in POW camp, in 1942, his German captors insisted on a British Court martial when a prisoner attacked a guard - my father was an ex pat Sarth Efrican doctor (officer). The tommy had been stabbed with the German's bayonet in the buttocks, and my fathers defence turned on whether the Tommy could have attacked him buttocks first....
It was conducted in German - hence my father's involvement as interpreter and the surprising sticking point, was the allegation that the Tommy had also shouted: " Du bluttig Bastard !" which sounded terrible in German but in English was neither here or there
Bit of history for you.
Yeah in Danny N's case - I thought it was obvious that if the judge had not followed the ct of appeals advice, then it would have gone to appeal successfully....
I did wonder about lack of a jury but didnt howl about it
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