Human rights what Human rights

[Loosehead]

Just reading about the court decsion on the case of a teenager using the HR act to stop the police enforcing a  curfew. Apparently it is against his "human right". Am I the only who thinks that only criminal scum have human rights? I mean what about my human right to live in peace or the human rights of the population to protect itself from the depraved scum that are our youth these days? Old ladies can't even put up barbed wire on their back fence in case the poor darlings hurt themselves. The HR act in my mind is being totally misused and is unncessary, I remember when we used, what has become rare these days, Common sense.

[luckyboy]

I agree with much of what you say, but don't you think you generalise when you say that our youth are depraved scum, there has always been some youth in every generation that behave appallingly, i agree that the behaviour of each passing generation seems to get worse, but the majority of kids while spoilt are by and large.. decent.

[Loosehead]

Well I didn't mean all of them. I was really getting at the way the HR act has been misused.

[acw]

Indeed luckyboy.  I personally think that a more common sense approach would be to have restrictions on groups hanging around.  Individuals on their own MIGHT have a legitimate reason for being out.  But under 16s shouldn't REALLY be out late at night - should they?  I know I never was.

Of course the whole thing is down to the media anyway.  They're the ones that have made people sacred of all young people when only some are badly behaved.  I saw stats that I can't accurately remember - but they showed that people are more worried about crimes that happen less often, and vice versa.  People spend their time worrying about youths in hoodies, but don't put on seatbelts or fit a smoke detector.  Where's the common sense there!?!

[londondave]

I hope the 14 year old that got the rule overturned eats his own words when he has gangs of youths outside his home jumping on his car.

Fair enough that some kids want to go to Rugby practice, band practice whatever, but the law needs to be re written to exclude those with a good reason

I used to live in Richmond and it is really 20 something that I saw causing the trouble

[acw]

I think the problem could well be the 20 somethings Dave mentioned dragging the younger ones into their gang culture.  I can't see this use of HRA helping though. 

Loosehead - I did/do agree with you in principle.  It's just that your sort of "tabloid" choice of words detracted from your very sensible arguement really.  I really don't mean that as rudely as it looks - I just mean that calling the kids "depraved scum" doesn't help! 

[Loosehead]

Ok thanks, but what about the main point "why do only criminal scum have human rights?" The example of the kid was just that an example.

[undercovers]

but thats the point - this teenager isn't a criminal, isn't a trouble maker and yet was prevented from going about his business by the police... so in answer to your question, no the HR act isn't used just by criminal scum as your own example demonstrates.

[MargeB]

Give the police the power to lift youngsters whenever they like, breaking the law or not.....Recipe for disaster. Am sure it is going to raise our youngsters to respect authority even more....not.

[Loosehead]

Ok not the best example. We can't stop travellers invading and destroying private and public areas, village cricket greens etc, because "it's against their human rights". Better example?  probably not, but you know what I mean when will someone stick up for my "Human right" to live unmolested or at least allow me to defend myself?

[MargeB]

I know what you mean, Loosehead, and I agree with you. I did (for once) like a similar line from Charles Clarke post-London-bombing. "What are the most important human rights? Well, firstly the human right to get on the tube without getting blown up."

[acw]

Loosehead - you have that right.  And if anyone molests you - go to the police - they'll try to deal with it.  Right now they might be a bit busy dealing with bombs in London (again).  If your HRs were violated that badly, I'm sure you'd take it to court if you felt strongly enough!  I hope the system would work to protect your rights. 

You can put barbed wire up by the way - it's hidden traps that are illegal - and have been for many many years. 

[OBonio]

Hidden traps you say?

*sneaks off to unwire back door handle from mains*

[Loosehead]

Tell that to the people who go every day to the police because they've got gangs of yobs terrorising their neighbourhoods and the Police do nothing. Try and do something yourself and there round like a flash to arrest you. What about their human rights? they are ignored by the Police. What about the countless people beaten up and in some cases beaten to death? for trying to stand up to the "Yoof".Some poor woman the other week was do bullied and traumatized that she fired a pellet gun into the ground in front of her tourmentors, result jail, for her! I know a couple of front line coppers and they say if you want police to attend a burglary or any incident tell them you've captured one and are about to knock Sh1t out of them and they'll be around like a flash otherwise forget it. I say again where are their, all of our, "human rights" the HR act was enacted to line the pockets of lawyers like Cherrie Blair not to really address the problem of human rights. Makes my blood boil, we are so helpless.

[acw]

Indeed - so if you dig a pit in your garden and cover it with twigs and leaves, that's naughty.  If you put up a sign saying "there's a hole here, don't fall in please" - you're ok!

*pictures loosehead and OBonio off to do some gardening!*

[Loosehead]

So acw can I errect 50000 volt electric fence as long as I put a sign on it? no didn't think so!

[acw]

I give up - you're not listening to anyone.  Again -if you want a thread for people just to agree with you - at least have the honesty to say so.  As for the electric fence  well I don't know.  And I have better things to do with my time than research answers to your point-proving dismissive little questions. 

[BigDogsWang]

Loosehead you need to calm down and take a chill pill.
acw you are an opinionated little madam � but I like you and I agree with most things you say, and you are obviously an intelligent lady.

Antisocial behaviour has existed for as long as there have been children. The difference between now and decades / centuries ago is the fact that we cannot escape the media, and most of the media is written by right wing sensationalists who need to fill their tabloid papers. I am seeing too many people like Loosehead who are letting stories such as these get to them and allowing their rage to turn them into potential vigilantes. I too am sick of seeing ill educated teenagers roaming the street with nothing better to do than make a damn nuisance of themselves. But if we allow ourselves to become bitter / resentful, we blind ourselves to the truth. The truth is no Government in this country has ever looked at disaffected youth and attempted to do anything about them other than try to rule them with an iron fist. It is about time that proper parenting is made top priority, and it is about time the youth of this country were given some sense of purpose.

There is no overnight solution, which is why we need to lay our plans out for the future sooner rather than later.

[Loosehead]

acw, I am listening, I'm responding, debating, I'm just trying to understand. You on the other hand haven't addresses my points. You haven't attempted to answer the original question. Sound's like you are the one who wants a thread for people to agree with them. You see I have researched it and you cannot put up barbed wire or any device even if you sign post it with signs in the 95 official uk languages. Trespassing little darlings might still harm themselves.

Bigdogs: That's what worries me, when the public don't feel safe they protect themselves and that is the way to total anarchy. That's what I want to avoid but until we are allowed to stand up to the vermin on our streets or indeed if the Police could stop playing PC oneupmanship with the CPS and reclaim our streets we will slip ever closer to the vigilanteism you describe. Frankly I'm amazed that there aren't already groups of disaffected middle class, middle aged men going out each night with pick axe handles...... now theres a thought . So all the news stories one mentioned above are made up are they just to get people angry? So that woman didn't do jail, that old man last week didn't die after being hounded by a load of yobs are you saying they are fabricated?

[Loosehead]

I missed a comma:

all the stories, one mentioned above

I wasn't adopting the royal pro noun!

[acw]

All I'm trying to ask is "Has it directly happened to you?"  Have you had a burglar in your home or been attacked by a gang of youths?  Has your business been vandalised?  etc etc

Your human rights are better now than before HRA and DPA.  I can understand that you want to lock up criminals and throw away the key, and I can understand that you want to prevent crime from happening. 

All I'm trying to say really, is that it's not as bad as all that.  Yes, there are some places where there are nasty gangs, but the media feeds this culture like pouring petrol on a fire!  I'm not saying it's not true, and these things DO deserve reporting, but it's the WAY in which they are reported that causes the problem. 

As for the right to defend your home - again, door and window locks, decent lighting and a burglar alarm work for a vast majority of British houses.  I don't see that we need to go back to fortresses with moats around them. 

And who is it that sees these people as "little darlings"?  Only you it would seem.