Hs2 Again

[mushroom25]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23744619

this report may well sound the death knell for HS2. Yet the fact remains that the capacity increase yielded by the upgrade of the west coast rail route started in 1999 (and is still not finished) has already been used up. A further upgrade would involve many more years of disruption but in any case is just not feasible.

so what's the answer? Extra transport capacity is needed now, never mind in the future. where should the government invest - upgrading the M1 and M40?

[emmie]

huge waste of money...

[Gromit]

Yep. Them railways have been a disaster for London. Why would we want any more?

[emmie]

because this project is deeply flawed, there are been numerous alternate routes, and London doesn't need more, it already has major stations, covering the country, and believe me the folks who will lose their homes, businesses because of the planned route from around Euston won't be well compensated, that has already been pointed out before on here.

[emmie]

just one example, and see when this project is supposed to be up and running,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22597363

[emmie]

this is what i was referring to, if you care to read it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-23572187

[mushroom25]

Emmie, I think you've made your point.

now, given that the west coast line is already on the verge of seizing up and the "upgrade" scheme still isn't finished and there's no possibility of a further upgrade, what's your solution?

[emmie]

if politicians, rail companies, and indeed interest groups, councils can't come up with a solution, are you really suggesting that i Josephine public can, come on mushroom be reasonable. Much freight goes by sea, they are already building more docks, an interesting programme i was watching the other day. Perhaps it's time for a radical rethink of moving people around, after all the railways were not originally built to carry passengers, it was for freight only, and wasn't till some bright person came up with the idea that people could pay their tuppence to go from A to B that they introduced rudimentary carriages.

[emmie]

with the age of technology and likely to get more so in the near future what is to stop people from working from home, office work doesn't have to be in an office, some say well you could be wagging it for the day off, but that doesn't mean the person will... why would you schlep all the way to Brum, Birmingham, Liverpool, Glasgow for a meeting that likely could be done by internet hookup, screen. Of course there are jobs like police, fire service, hospitals where that can't be done, but we have to have a major rethink on how people move from A - B. Rail fares are not cheap, and commuting is a major expense in many households. One guy i worked with travelled 5 hours a day round trip, 5000 grand in fares, this was some years ago, madness.

[mushroom25]

a move to home working, networking, etc won't reduce the need for fast passenger trains sufficiently to create the extra capacity already needed for freight traffic. the only way of achieving that without expensive infrastructure changes would be to reduce passenger train speeds to match the speed of freight trains.

[jake-the-peg]

There's a good reason to put freit rather than paddengers on trains Gromit,

Passengers often want their cars when they arrive at a destination in order to complete their onward journey so they'll often drive because of this reason.


If you could load large quantities of freight directly onto trains at Southampton your road freight costs are lowered because you are distributing from points like Birmingham, Manchester and Glasgow rather than driving everything up and down the country - and I'll wager it'd be more efficient than lots of individual trucks

[mushroom25]

indeed jake.

http://www.stobartgroup.co.uk/services/transport-and-distribution/stobart-rail/

[Dodger666]

VHG

The "front" of the line may well be only 10 mins walk from New Street Station. The end of the platforms, 415 mtrs long, are considerably further away. Not everyone will need to get off and exit from Curzon Street entrance.

[Gromit]

// Passengers often want their cars when they arrive at a destination in order to complete their onward journey so they'll often drive because of this reason. //

Oh dear. Talk about totally missing the point. The whole idea of investing in public transport is stop our towns and cities grinding to a halt because of too many cars.

[jake-the-peg]

I fear you're missing the point Gromit

HS2 has nothing to do with reducing city congestion

you can invest a fraction of the amount in park-and-ride schemes if that's what you're trying to achieve!

Besides you may habour ideas of a fantasy world where businessmen go up to places like Birmingham and then wait for buses and walk to get to their meetings to save the planet (no tube in Brum yet) but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

Still give me a shout next time you're standing next to Duncan Ballentyne or Peter Jones at the bus stop or taxi rank.

[Gromit]

Jake,

// Besides you may habour ideas of a fantasy world where businessmen go up to places like Birmingham and then wait for buses and walk to get to their meetings //

I take you do not travel by train. They are full of business travellers. I travelled last week from Manchester to London at 8am and the passengers were predominantly business travellers. There must have been over 200 laptops/tablets in use. Instead of 2000 cars going into the capital, 4 trains did the job. Some do catch public transport at their destinations including taxis which actually take you to the doorstep of your destination. Taxis have caught on in backward places like Manchester, Leeds and Birmingham.

[Gromit]

Jake,

https://mobile.twitter.com/DuncanBannatyne/status/4439913359

[Bazile]

I've not read the replies , so excuse me if someone has asked this already .

80 Billion is a huge wedge - does anyone know how this is made up / the breakdown of the costs , roughly / to whoom payments are to be made ?

[emmie]

London grinds to a halt because we have too many vehicles, and too many either unnecessary or prolonged roadworks. The speed limit in some areas are now down to 20 mph, however having sat on a bus for 1 and a half hours to get home recently, a fairly short distance i would dispute that speed.

[FredPuli43]

The Financial Times, tomorrow, is reporting that the Treasury is privately working with the figure of £73 billion as the cost. Hmm. Well, the government is saying that the cost will be far less than that, so the Treasury must be dreaming, mustn't it ? The government wouldn't be wrong, would they?