Burkas V. Mini-Skirts

[Khandro]

Baroness Warsi says banning the burka would be like banning the mini-skirt
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10421608/Banning-veil-would-be-like-outlawing-miniskirts-says-Baroness-Warsi.html
but the comparison is flawed, in fact the mini-skirt is by far the healthier attire. The most important method of obtaining vitamin D is through exposure to sunlight, and in his book (my wife is reading); 'Allah ist mit den Standhaften' Peter Scholl-Latour points to the ill health of women avoiding such exposure,- some even covering the slit they look through with sunglasses. So apart from its other benefits, isn't the mini-skirt the better option?

[tonyav]

Used to love mini skirts, especially when the wearer was going upstairs on the bus.

[anotheoldgit]

Gromit

/// People in Burkas should not be able to exempt themselves from CCTV cameras? Of course they should. We all should. The right of the state to photograph our every movement is something they have taken. I don't remember giving my permission. ///

May I state that old cliché 'why does it matter If you've nothing to hide'

But apart from that just consider the number of crimes CCTV have helped to solve, surely that must be a good thing?

[anotheoldgit]

Gromit

You just carry on wearing your Burka if you must Gromit, but please don't expect others to accept it on the streets of Britain.

[FredPuli43]

Well, we are all prone to sunlight deficiency in the UK. A friend in Canada has just bought a special light, also available from amazon here, which is meant to counteract this effect, though I suspect it is bunkum in this instance. Do we have evidence of burqa wearers suffering from a deficiency which other fully clothed wearers do not? After all, it is only the skin on the face which is being covered. But it is a reason for those who are against the burqa to seize on, regardless of any peer reviewed evidence, isn't it ? Better than saying it is not British ! The turban and the yarmulke aren't "British" either, are they?

Unless the mini-skirt wearer is not wearing tights in our weather, she is not exposing skin either.

Let's be honest. People object to the burqa because it is a sign of oppression, or because someone following what they believe to be a religious or cultural necessity stands out as being not Christian and/or not one of us. Not British indeed ! Why they object on the second ground when they have no objection to the Sikh turban or the yarmulke or orthodox Jews in Stamford Hill dressed as they think their religion requires, is not explained.

[mikey4444]

Fred...I couldn't give a flying furkin if some women in Britain want to wear a burka or not. It also doesn't bother me what religion they follow either...its all none of my business. I shall be walking the dog shortly and I will be wearing a rather fetching leather cowboy hat, as it is threatening to rain. I don't suppose this hat will be universally popular, but again, its my business and not anybody elses.

But when they use the burka as an excuse to hide their identity in a court of law....well, that is very different matter indeed.

[FredPuli43]

AOG, do you object to the Sikh who wears a turban or the orthodox Jew who is bearded, dressed head to foot in black, has "dreadlocks " on his temples, wears a black hat, and all the rest of his accoutrements ?

[FredPuli43]

In a court of law,mikey, when giving evidence, nobody should be allowed to cover their face, any more than they are allowed to do so for passport or driving licence photos. A recent survey of barristers showed 90 per cent agreeing with that. But that surely is not what most objectors have in mind.

[anotheoldgit]

/// Not British indeed ! Why they object on the second ground when they have no objection to the Sikh turban or the yarmulke or orthodox Jews in Stamford Hill dressed as they think their religion requires, is not explained. ///

Well I will explain it for you, many different types of headdress are worn in Britain and it has always been so, some very smart others seen to be ridiculous by some, my own pet hate is the wearing of 'baseball caps' these are bad enough when worn normally but the modern way seems to be to wear them sideways or back to front.

But the Burka and niqab are not a head coverings, but full face coverings, and the face should be on view for everyone, that is one way we communicate with each other by showing various facial expressions etc.

[douglas9401]

Is the burka not just the maxi skirt taken to extremes?

[FredPuli43]

Oh, I see AOG. It is not so much a question of crime prevention. It is that you feel that you should be able to read every facial expression of every burqa wearing woman you talk to. How often do you do that? And if, perchance, you talk to someone wearing a full face bike helmet or to a Securicor guard in uniform, do you ask them to uncover their faces so you can fully read all their facial expressions?

[Khandro]

fred; //Is there any evidence//please see; http://defence.pk/threads/burqa-clad-women-prone-to-vitamin-d-deficiency-doctors.256955/

[naomi24]

All this talk of the turban, the yarmulke, and the length of a skirt is irrelevant. None of those items of clothing separate the wearer from the rest of humanity by covering the face.

Just out of interest, are any of you chaps happy to be perceived as potentially a licentious predator?

[FredPuli43]

That is very interesting, Khandro. I hope that they and their menfolk are aware of this. Meanwhile it is very worthy of British objectors to be concerned for the possible sunlight deficiency of women in Saudi Arabia. Do you think that, by extension, that is really their objection to women being covered in this country? They are really concerned to protect them from vitamin D deficiency? Or do you think that their fundamental objection is something else?

[anotheoldgit]

FredPuli43

/// And if, perchance, you talk to someone wearing a full face bike helmet or to a Securicor guard in uniform, do you ask them to uncover their faces so you can fully read all their facial expressions? ///

Stop now Fred, because you are now beginning to sound rather very silly.

[FredPuli43]

In what way does covering the face separate the woman 'from the rest of humanity' ? And why does it bother you, Naomi ?

[FredPuli43]

AOG , if what I say sounds silly, please explain for what reason you say so.
What is the answer to my questions?

[viv38]

Did she say it bothered her ??

[naomi24]

Viv, it does bother me. Read on…..

Fred, after what you said about the importance of facial expressions I’m surprised you need to ask. Why does it bother me? Because I care about the plight of the thousands of voiceless women condemned to separation by an antiquated and misogynistic culture.

[jno]

//everyone should have the right to cover up.
And they have.
Everyone has covered up? I must have missed something. //

No - everyone has the right.

[FredPuli43]

Naomi, now that I understand. It is not, for you, the burqa itself which is objectionable but what you perceive it stands for. We now await what AOG's reasoning is for objecting. He hasn't mentioned that so far, even though he must be in the forefront of the women's rights movement.