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Offensive Or Not?
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'Sairish Tahir and Isabelle Scott, York University's black, minority and ethnic officers, said: 'This is an incredibly insensitive and arrogant decision made by a group of supposed young adults who thought that "blacking up" and appropriating one's race would be a great joke.
'Blacking up is steeped in a history of discrimination, degradation and bigotry.
'Choosing to perpetuate these racial stereotypes to create shock value seems to be an increasing common theme across young people at universities and will certainly not be tolerated as acceptable behaviour, in this day and age.'
Were they 'perpetuating a racial sterotype' or simply dressing up themed to a particular movie. Surely the movie 'Cool Runnings' played on a stereotypical notion that Jamaica shouldn't have successful bobsleigh team.
'Sairish Tahir and Isabelle Scott, York University's black, minority and ethnic officers, said: 'This is an incredibly insensitive and arrogant decision made by a group of supposed young adults who thought that "blacking up" and appropriating one's race would be a great joke.
'Blacking up is steeped in a history of discrimination, degradation and bigotry.
'Choosing to perpetuate these racial stereotypes to create shock value seems to be an increasing common theme across young people at universities and will certainly not be tolerated as acceptable behaviour, in this day and age.'
Were they 'perpetuating a racial sterotype' or simply dressing up themed to a particular movie. Surely the movie 'Cool Runnings' played on a stereotypical notion that Jamaica shouldn't have successful bobsleigh team.
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I think the thread title sums this up - offence is very much a moveable feast, and any offence - or not - depends on the circumstances of the event, and who sees and / or hears it.
I am all in favour of proper respect being shown to anyone's ethnicity and culture, but we must beware of not being seen to be waiting to be offended.
That way lies The Self-Righteous Brothers -
I am all in favour of proper respect being shown to anyone's ethnicity and culture, but we must beware of not being seen to be waiting to be offended.
That way lies The Self-Righteous Brothers -
I was offended by this film.
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Getting a white actor to black up to play Othello is very different to this story.
There are black actors well able to play Othello but fancy dress is supposed to be dressing up as somebody or something different to yourself.
If a white man (or woman) can dress up as David Beckham in a football kit with stick on tattoos without causing offence, why can't the same man dress up as a Jamaican bob sleigher?
There are black actors well able to play Othello but fancy dress is supposed to be dressing up as somebody or something different to yourself.
If a white man (or woman) can dress up as David Beckham in a football kit with stick on tattoos without causing offence, why can't the same man dress up as a Jamaican bob sleigher?
hc4361 - "If a white man (or woman) can dress up as David Beckham in a football kit with stick on tattoos without causing offence, why can't the same man dress up as a Jamaican bob sleigher?"
Because David Beckham is white.
The perceived issue is that 'blacking up' can be seen as demeaning to black people - a white person dressing up as a white person does not provide the same potential situation for offence.
Because David Beckham is white.
The perceived issue is that 'blacking up' can be seen as demeaning to black people - a white person dressing up as a white person does not provide the same potential situation for offence.
andy-hughes
/// The perceived issue is that 'blacking up' can be seen as demeaning to black people ///
Can you explain this strange issue further Andy, is it because they consider that they hold the sole right not to be impersonated?
Would a Native American feel the same if a white man tanned his skin and wore a feathered head-dress and also donned war paint? because I have never heard of any complaining, and the Village People got away with it for years.
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And what about such things as this, should the Japanese also feel offended?
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/// a white person dressing up as a white person does not provide the same potential situation for offence. ///
Well thank goodness for that, because I have been doing that for years.
/// The perceived issue is that 'blacking up' can be seen as demeaning to black people ///
Can you explain this strange issue further Andy, is it because they consider that they hold the sole right not to be impersonated?
Would a Native American feel the same if a white man tanned his skin and wore a feathered head-dress and also donned war paint? because I have never heard of any complaining, and the Village People got away with it for years.
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And what about such things as this, should the Japanese also feel offended?
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/// a white person dressing up as a white person does not provide the same potential situation for offence. ///
Well thank goodness for that, because I have been doing that for years.
AOG - "Can you explain this strange issue further Andy, is it because they consider that they hold the sole right not to be impersonated?"
Fraid not AOG, because I am not black, so I have no concept of what, if any offence this would cause me.
That's why I was careful to say " ...can be seen as ... " because I cannot speak from direct, or even second-hand experience, because I only know one black person, a colleague whom I am hardly even in touch with. #
I always appreeciate the input on any debate from someone who has direct experience of the matter being discussed.
Of course, I can venture an opinion, but I cannot difinitively answer your question - sorry.
Fraid not AOG, because I am not black, so I have no concept of what, if any offence this would cause me.
That's why I was careful to say " ...can be seen as ... " because I cannot speak from direct, or even second-hand experience, because I only know one black person, a colleague whom I am hardly even in touch with. #
I always appreeciate the input on any debate from someone who has direct experience of the matter being discussed.
Of course, I can venture an opinion, but I cannot difinitively answer your question - sorry.
hc4361 - "Nonsense, andy-hughes. A child impersonating his or her sport hero or favourite popstar should not be deemed offensive just because that person is of a different colour."
I fail to see how your point connects with mine in any way.
AOG asked if i could explain why black people may take offence at the circumstance as outlined - I explained that i could not, because I am not black.
I did not enter the debate about the rightness or otherwise of the taking of offence - that is an entirely separate issue from the point AOG raised, and I answered.
So your answer to me appears to be meaningless - it contradicts a point I did not make - but please elaborate if I have misunderstood.
I fail to see how your point connects with mine in any way.
AOG asked if i could explain why black people may take offence at the circumstance as outlined - I explained that i could not, because I am not black.
I did not enter the debate about the rightness or otherwise of the taking of offence - that is an entirely separate issue from the point AOG raised, and I answered.
So your answer to me appears to be meaningless - it contradicts a point I did not make - but please elaborate if I have misunderstood.
hc4361 - I reaise now that you were answering my previous post to the one I posted to AOG - apologies for the confusion.
Please allow me to address your post on that basis -
"Nonsense, andy-hughes. A child impersonating his or her sport hero or favourite popstar should not be deemed offensive just because that person is of a different colour."
I did not say that it should be deemed offensive - or indeed not - i simply pointed out that the potential for offence caused by perceived mockery of ethnicity is absent if the two parties - the subject and the costume-wearer - are of the same ethnic background.
Being a white person dressing up as David Beckham is not likley to raise questions of taste on the basis of racism -which is the premise of the OP - because no racial issue is apparent.
Being a white person dressing as a Jamaican bob-sleigh team member may cause offence.
Let me be clear - I am pointing out what I see as the difference in the two scenarios, I am not at this stage offering an opinion about the veracity of the offence taken - that is an entirely separate question.
Please allow me to address your post on that basis -
"Nonsense, andy-hughes. A child impersonating his or her sport hero or favourite popstar should not be deemed offensive just because that person is of a different colour."
I did not say that it should be deemed offensive - or indeed not - i simply pointed out that the potential for offence caused by perceived mockery of ethnicity is absent if the two parties - the subject and the costume-wearer - are of the same ethnic background.
Being a white person dressing up as David Beckham is not likley to raise questions of taste on the basis of racism -which is the premise of the OP - because no racial issue is apparent.
Being a white person dressing as a Jamaican bob-sleigh team member may cause offence.
Let me be clear - I am pointing out what I see as the difference in the two scenarios, I am not at this stage offering an opinion about the veracity of the offence taken - that is an entirely separate question.
Someone mentioned these guys earlier in the thread, it appears Big Brother is watching them, albeit for a different reason,
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