Shoes off!

[ICEMANSAV]

Now this is probably just media propaganda but do you think thast it is acceptable that house raids on suspected terror houses that our armed response service have to remove their shoes before entering a muslim house to make arrests? I just find the image of several pairs of Doc Martins or whatever on the doorstep quite amuing, as to avoid being disrespectful to the house occupants. This was reported in the express yesterday I think!

[acw]

...ctd

georgit79 - "You lot" being the people jumping on the anti-PC bandwagon and making statements that are dangerously close to being racist, and thinking that it's ok to do so.  "You lot" being the people who can't admit that this is a very complex issue and it's about more than bloomin shoes.  I don't understand it fully - and I've admitted that repeatedly.  I just wish someone else might do the same.  None of us is perfect. 

mfewell - not getting much work done cos I have a cracking hangover.  I don't think it is "only in this country", and I don't think people made other suggestions in order "not to offend the Muslims".  It's only in America that you can sue your boss for NOT sexually harassing you, yet people seem to think this country is the only one with ridiculous policies and laws. 

Finally - at risk of using a dangerous phrase - this is not a black and white issue.  There are shades of "PCness" and shades of political opinion.  We all understand this, yet I have had a label slapped onto me that I am a bleeding heart PC liberal - and no-one seems prepared to listen to my views in light of anything other than this tag.  I concede I was wrong to label ICEMANSAV a BNP racist, and I apologise about that.  I see that he is more centre in his views that I first assumed.  Perhaps someone could now concede that I too am more centre than you first presumed.(?)

[ICEMANSAV]

acw apology accepted. As a note your points are valid and very well presented, but you will upset other members with generalisations and your defensive streak only dismantles your normally very perceptive opinions. I think that may be the reason for previos attacks against your posts. c'est la vie

[acw]

I've always been very defensive, it's just who I am.  And when I have to defend myself to four or five people at once, you begin to see why sometimes I start to think "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you".  :-p

Seriously though - once people stick a label on me, or make personal insults, I'm afraid it's red rag to a bull and I do lose it.  It's not something I do in professional / academic situations, but internet forums to often bring out the worst in me. 

I'm glad you accept my apology, and I do get that you weren't actually having a go at my family.  I'm pleased that's all cleared up now. 

Let's see what the next wave brings though!!! :-S

[mfewell]

acw, all this will help when you become a barrister, you will remember AB and these debates. I'm not gittin' much -----ing done my end either. How do I draw a smiley, is it ::)

Let's be glad we have a Centre and a country that permits us to be to (far) right or (far) left of it.

[acw]

That's true - at least we're not going to have the police barging into our homes in their size 9s because we're posting on the internet about politics and religion! (Yes, a deliberate, if not poor, attempt at humour!)

PS - mfewell - not meaning to be even more irritating, but I'm actually really hoping to be a solicitor rather than a barrister.  Although some people have said that I'm so gobby I should think about the bar.  I do think about the bar - I spent too much time there last night! lol :-)

(That's a smiley there - with a dash in to make the nose.  But the sentiment is there with smilies whatever they look like! ��} )

[MargeB]

acw, it's important to remember that people are aware this site (despite being very useful) is, at the end of the day, the internet, not face to face, so flaming, arguing, head-to-heads, and even name calling are part of the theatre which is impossible in real life. On top of that, we learn so much. If you make a dramatic or defensive point, people might rant in return, just as part of that theatre. None of it is meant personally. And as pointed out before, its all done hastily on keyboards, without perfect consideration for all possible impacts of the argument.

If I was charged with a serious offence, it would be good to have someone like yourself on my side, you do look at all the arguments and make your point forcefully. Good luck with the law.

[smudge]

In a Bedfordshire newspaper, I read an article that said the police must remove their shoes/boots before entering Muslim houses - are not to use sniffer dogs in Muslim houses - & not to ask Muslim women to remove the head gear covering their faces.

In that case:

• How will the police be able to run after a suspect when not wearing their protective shoes/boots?
• How will they find untoward substances in a house without using the trained sniffer dogs.
• How will the police know who the people are behind the head gear? They could very well be terrorist men or women suspects! 

If these people have nothing to hide, then they should allow the police to carry out their searches/jobs in the normal way, the same as the rest of us.

[mfewell]

Who'd be surprised if MI5/6 or whatever are keeping a covert eye on us ?  The Austrian Anschluss was conducted largely electronically even 60 years ago. I read that police recently nicked some guy from Friends Reunited because he thought it was 'private' (ye gods, the internet private!!) and started spinning a yarn about drug-dealing. So put the bolt on at night, and carpet your hall with sacred objects to gain a bit of time.

[ICEMANSAV]

That was the article smudge but I don't live anywhere near bedford so it must have been in another also.

[smudge]

It was actually in a Bedfordshire newspaper covering Luton. For obvious reasons I can't name the newspaper!

I do believe the authorities have the police treading on egg shells & pussy footing around, which is ridiculous, especially after a car containing explosives, etc., was found in a Luton car park! Why can't they just be allowed to get on with the job in hand.

If the police do happen to tread dog muck into suspects homes, perhaps they could sue the authorities for the carpet cleaninig costs. I'd rather that than people's lives being at risk! 

[Loosehead]

I'm staying out of this one!

[smudge]

I stayed well out of it too until I read the article in the Beds newspaper!

[ICEMANSAV]

share your thoughts loosehead ......

[smudge]

icemansav?

[ICEMANSAV]

whats up smudge ?, You didn't think I was clling you a loose head did you? It was for username loosehead

[smudge]

No IMS - I wasn't sure if your comment was tongue-in-cheek, as looking back at your posts, you've already voiced your opinions - not really 'staying out of this one' is it? Or do you just mean just my thread? ;o]

P.S. To all the PC brigade - just to put the record straight, I am not a member of the BNP, or any other suchlike organisation, I'm merely saying the law is the law & police tacticts should be the same for all suspected terrorists, despite their religion, etc.

[justineo]

On Radio 2 today a police spokesperson has said that it is only in routine calls to houses of Muslims when they would respect those particular customs such as taking off shoes, allowing women to cover their heads etc.

[acw]

smudge - who in particular was that latest dig aimed at?  Please be honest and name names - you may as well. 

[ICEMANSAV]

sorry smudge I don't understand. I am not staying out of this one... loosehead said that.

[smudge]

ICEMANSAV - I can see why you're confused now! I read your post as "I share your thoughts loosehead......", only because there wasn't a question mark after it! Now I realise you were asking loosehead to share his/her thoughts with you/us. So I do apologise for that misunderstanding! (Another bad head day)!

justineo - Glad to hear that. Perhaps the authorities have had a change of heart & realised that the soft touch isn't such a good idea when searching for suspected terrorists. Of course, no one is suggesting that all Muslim people are terrorists - that would be ridiculous - but the police must stay on their guard regarding all terrorists, not only the Muslim ones.

acw - my post wasn't aimed at anyone in particular, I just didn't want anyone thinking that because I voiced my opinion on anti-terrorism, I might be associated with members of racist organisations & I didn't want to be tarred with the same brush as any of them.