Does This Ukip Man Have 'prehistoric' Views?

[FredPuli43]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2515115/Ukip-MEP-Stuart-Agnew-claims-women-lack-ambition-babies-way.html

Mr Agnew was in a debate about having gender quotas. He observed that women who had babies lacked ambition or drive to succeed; babies got in the way; though there were exceptions, but sexism and poor child care held some influence [I paraphrase]

Does he have a point? In the circumstances of the debate, I don't find that necessarily 'prehistoric'

[FredPuli43]

There was a time when a woman in work stopped working when she got married. Then there was a time when the view was that it was a clear option and yet the general view was that she wouldn't. Now, it may well be that the general view is that she should resume work if for no other reason that the household needs the second income, and if the childcare is available and it makes economic sense, she will. If you can afford to lose the income, then fine, but there are many households where what prevailed in the 1950s cannot be applied any more.

[hc4361]

I don't 'get' this affordable childcare. Surely a childminder is entitled to the minimum wage so if (s)he looks after only one child for 50 hours a week that is over £300 a week. If (s)he looks after 3 that is still £100 a week from each family. Then add on the cost of insurance and everything else the childminder must have.

A nursery has all sorts of overheads as well as staff wages.

[anotheoldgit]

FredPuli43

/// but there are many households where what prevailed in the 1950s cannot be applied any more. ///

It could be applied, it is just that the 'modern' young person is not prepared to make the same sacrifices these days.

Way back then a couple's first decision was "can we afford to marry"? Then after they married "what can we afford to buy"? if one didn't have the ready cash (which many did not) then they were forced to save up a deposit so as to buy their 'essential' goods on Hire Purchase. The saying then was if we can't afford it we do without' but not today the modern couple want everything straight away.

Then after they had furnished their home, the next big decision they made was "can we afford for the wife to give up work so as to start a family"?

When that decision was made and the couple had started a family, the woman stayed at home to look after their children and the man reverted to his place in the family as the 'bread winner' for the family.

And so they lived 'happy ever after', well most did.

[FredPuli43]

Well, AOG, let's see what people of generations younger than ours think of that, shall we? It may be illuminating.

[anotheoldgit]

hc4361

/// I don't 'get' this affordable childcare. ///

It is a wish for the state to subsidise the 'childcare'.

[pixie373]

Not completely true, aog. Everybody that i know saves up for what they want. They don't use credit or loans. Perhaps houses and bills are proportionately more expensive now. We don't have luxuries, but still need two incomes.

[anotheoldgit]

FredPuli43

/// Well, AOG, let's see what people of generations younger than ours think of that, shall we? It may be illuminating. ///

I wait with bated breath Fred.

[anotheoldgit]

pixie373

/// Not completely true, aog. Everybody that i know saves up for what they want. They don't use credit or loans. Perhaps houses and bills are proportionately more expensive now. We don't have luxuries, but still need two incomes. ///

And very good luck to them too, but they must be in the minority in these days of credit cards, over-draughts, bank loans, money lenders, two cars on the drive, wide screen TVs etc, etc, etc.

[pixie373]

I really don't know whether that's a majority or not, aog. I'm speaking from experience and observation without the statistics. While overdrafts and loans are very publicised and available, it doesn't necessarily mean the majority relies on them.

[pixie373]

We do have two cars, but then we both work.

[mikey4444]

baz...same story, same drivel.

[jomifl]

Some women are very ambitious.... to have babies. A friend of our's main ambition was to have grand children. Her teaching job took second place. She was very successful in her ambition as she now has several grand children. If it wasn't for ambitious women like this the human race would disappear.

[pixie373]

Baz, there's nothing "closet" about your racism. But irrelevant in this thread.

[pixie373]

Exactly my point, jom. I think often the words "ambitious" and "successful" are used by men and women in different ways. We need to stop judging women on men's terms. It's unfair and inaccurate anyway and does nobody any favours. Women have different strengths- we don't actually want to turn them into men.

[jomifl]

Pixie, absolutely, turning out a well adjusted and well educated child is something to be proud of, I couldn't do it.

[ummmm]

How much did a house cost in 1950 compared to todays prices?

Some people would never be able to have children as well as mortgage without two incomes.

[jomifl]

Prudie, I can't speak for the 50's but I do remember a friend buying a 3 bedroom bungalow near Brentwood in a respectable area for £2500. Not long after I started work on about £8 per week.

[bazwillrun]

@pixie

"A bunch of fruitcakes, loonies and closet-racists."

the other little pea in your pod brought it up

so before you go telling people what and what isnt relevant, on or off subject i suggest you read all the threads in a post carefully

as I said just because people dont share your views on the way this country is being wrecked doesnt make them racist as much as youd like to label them as such

[pixie373]

I have read quite a few of your posts.