Brave Or Stupid?

[ToraToraTora]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-25328656

[emmie]

torn between one and the other, i think if there is a problem already with drugs and its distribution making it legal, at least marijuana, then maybe they can cut the cartels down a bit, but i would think that harder drugs are the real problem, heroin, cocaine, as they are in many parts of the world.

[ToraToraTora]

yes but as the gateway to hard drugs are they not going to make the problem worse?

[emmie]

don't know, but it's big business - if say you have outlets where the addicts or those wishing to buy recreational drugs can buy, take them safely and not have to go to a dealer, then perhaps that will cut out the dealers, cartels, it's a massive problem around the globe, and those who take drugs, including those in Britain, never think of the consequences to the countries, peoples that produce them, like cocaine, the farmers growing poppies instead of wheat because it's more productive they get a better financial return.

[jake-the-peg]

This 'gateway' drug argument is a really dumb one

Goes along the line of '99% of all hard drugs users started off with cannibis therefore canibis is a gateway drug'

Strangely they never say '99% of hard drug users started off with alcohol' which is doubtlessly just as true.

Felix is a cat felix is black therefore all cats are black! - duh!

But back to the question - crucially this is strictly limited to nationals the idea being to prevent the sort of 'drug tourism' that places like Amsterdam have seen which is the big legalisation issue.

There are health issues with cannibis particularly with the very strong skunk and with children but all in all it doesn't look like an outrageously framed law, the amounts people are restricted to look reasonable - it will be interesting to see what happens

[pixie373]

It definitely isn't a gateway to hard drugs, but can have just as severe consequences itself. I'm not convinced it's a good idea, but will be interested to see what happens. It's a human experiment, really.

[VHG]

If alcohol was currently illegal, and a country was trying to make it legal, you would probably find many people would say that was a stupid idea.

Judging by the number of deaths, injuries, fights, domestic violence and other problems caused by alcohol maybe we should consider banning that.

[weecalf]

Will be legal every where soon Id imagine .Reason look at the tax could be gleamed from it .The money saved by policing the illegal growth and sale of it .Wont matter what the man in the street cares or says when its ready to legalise it i will go ahead .Leak a few reports see how it goes down ,the set a date 5 years hence .Seen it all before .Who wanted vat .poll tax strictly come dancing ,xfactor but we have got them.

[ToraToraTora]

show me heroin addict that did not start on dope.

[jake-the-peg]

If you show me one that didn't start on alcohol

[youngmafbog]

VHG, I am sure the health brigade nutters will start on alcohol soon.

I'm pretty sure many heroine users did start off on cannibals. It is usually the gateway drug because pushers will then tempt the cannabis user with trying something else and so the cycle begins.

It will definitely be interesting to see how it goes. My personal opinion is that cannabis should be legalized and taxed, then the tax used to track down those that sell drugs illegally with draconian penalties for those caught (even in possession of a small amount)

[pixie373]

That doesn't mean dope led on to heroin. It means those likely to take drugs, will often start on something easy to obtain. It doesn't follow that one leads to the other. I've smoked dope. I've never done heroin, so that argument doesn't work.

[youngmafbog]

Jake, I'm not sure that alcohol is the ultimate route of the evil, for the reason given above.

And over the years I have known a few users (lived in a bedsit of them, it was not pleasant). I never once saw them drink though whether they did before I dont know. Many modern drugs are not used with alcohol either.

[youngmafbog]

No, pixie, clearly not everyone who smoked or smokes dope will move on or we would have a big problem. I dont think anyone has claimed that.

I can only speak for what I have seen with my own eyes, although it is true that is limited to a small area.

[jake-the-peg]

The point is that ther is no causal link between cannibis and hard drug use any more than there is between alcohol and hard drug use

The idea is based on a completely false logic as exemplified by Tora saying all Heroin users first started on cannabis

The causal link is just not there and I'd love to see the evidence you have for pushers tempting cannibis users onto heroin - what exactly do you base that on?

That's not to say Cannabis is a safe drug - there's plenty of evidence of it inducing psychosis in strongish quantities and a higher rate of cancer from users due to the way they hold it in the lungs longer.

That being said the effect it has on people is often safer than alcohol - you don't get cannibis users getting stoked up and heading off for a fight.

Remember that something like 80% of all violent crimes are alcohol related - and you only have to take a trawl through the legal threads on this site to see examples of that!

So all in all I'd say the risks from cannibis use were roughly copmmensurate with alcohol and tobacco depending on what questions you're asking

[Old_Geezer]

Show me heroin addict that did not start on milk.

I think it's a good idea, but as some folk have recently mentioned, the strength if this stuff has apparently been growing over the years, there should be standards on how potent is acceptable.

[Gromit]

The illegality of Cannabis means that people who want it are forced to break the law. That is a gateway to being a mass murder.

[Kromovaracun]

It is plain from our experience that waging war on drugs is simply not working. Drugs of all strengths are widely available regardless of how legal they are.

And no, it doesn't have anything to do with the severity of punishments. China has some very harsh punishments for dealing drugs, but I have seen drug dealers in Beijing selling their wares directly outside police stations and on public transport.

It is futile to pretend we can control drugs by making them illegal. If we want to have more control over them, our only chance is to legalise them and bring them out of the black market.

This would have a particular nice side effect, too - it would break the spine of organized crime in this country.

[jomifl]

Alcohol clearly isn't a gateway to drugs as I am a habitual drinker (mostly wine with food) and have never taken 'drugs'. So, in theory at least Jakes argument fails.

[ummmm]

Not all hard drug users start on dope. Dope, 9 times out of 10, is smoked, some hard drug users don't smoke!

[Gromit]

Jomifl
Rather than disprove jake, you are actually proving his argument. He is not saying drinking alcohol leads to hard drugs, quite the opposite.