Just Broke: Turing Given Royal Pardon!

[ChillDoubt]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25495315

Not before time!

[andy-hughes]

I felt at the time when this was first discussed, and feel now, that a pardon is wrong.

The implication is that, because a man did great things for his country, and there is no dispute there, that it means he is immune from the laws which prosceuted and imprisoned others without the luxury of a posthumous pardon.

If you apply that logic to others in a similar position, it would not be difficutl to find several thousand people who did good deeds, and should therefore be similarly pardoned.

Far better would be to apply the law fairly - which was done at the time - and let convictions stand.

To do otherwise starts a divisive attitude to criminals based on their perceived worth to society in the long term - a futile and worthless exercise.

Are we going to re-assess a still untried and unconvicted Jimmy Saville on the basis of his charity work?

[emmie]

and now have some peoples who inhabit Britain who hate homosexuals, that believe it goes against all their religious teachings, oh hum, going backwards i reckon

[Kromovaracun]

Andy/Naomi

Actually, I hadn't thought of that (that 'pardon' implies he did something wrong). That's a very good point.

[boxtops]

It's not new there, emmie - Christianity disapproves of homosexuals, as well as Islam. Look at all that hooha about gay bishops.

[naomi24]

Never thought I'd praise Gordon Brown - but that was the right thing to do.

[naomi24]

Krom, exactly. A 'pardon' is an insult.

[emmie]

most people in Britain have gone along with the outlawing of discrimination, on gender, homosexuality, quite right too, a my feeling is that Christianity is well on the wane, whilst Islam is not. Their stance from the Qu'ran is unequivocal on homosexuality.

[ludwig]

The thing is, if they're acknowledging that the law was inherently wrong, and injustice was done, then surely you have to issue the same pardon to everyone else who was convicted of the same crime?

They're not saying he was innocent of the crime, rather that the 'crime' should never have existed, so why not pardon everyone on the same basis?

[RATTER15]

Naomi,

"Today, pardons are granted in many countries when individuals have demonstrated that they have fulfilled their debt to society, or are otherwise considered to be deserving. Pardons are sometimes offered to persons who are wrongfully convicted or claim they have been wrongfully convicted. Some believe accepting such a pardon implicitly constitutes an admission of guilt as a pardon does not set aside the conviction, so in some cases the offer is refused. Cases of wrongful conviction are nowadays more often dealt with by appeal than by pardon however, a pardon is sometimes offered when innocence is undisputed to avoid the costs of a retrial. Clemency plays a very important role when capital punishment is applied."

//Pardons are sometimes offered to persons who are wrongfully convicted or claim they have been wrongfully convicted.//

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardon

I think a pardon is appropriate, however it can never undo the damage done and the heartbreak it caused his family.

[RATTER15]

ludwig, I agree but I don't think it would be practical, maybe a mass pardon?

[emmie]

ratter, no it can't and the many who were imprisoned for simply loving, caring about someone of their sex, women included.

[anotheoldgit]

Canary42

/// I presume that by "dirty acts" solvitquick is referring to anal intercourse - something which in this country is actually practised by far more heterosexual couples than homosexuals. ///

And how could you or anyone else for that matter possibly know that?

[naomi24]

Ratter, I know, but in cases like this an apology should be offered - not a 'pardon'. That, in effect, means the queen is 'pardoning' him for the crime of having been human. It's ridiculous.

[ChillDoubt]

The two journalists discussing this story on Sky News last night said pretty much the same i.e. the role played by Turing in defeating fascism and tyranny and the defence of these Isles and his subsequent shocking treatment stood him out as an icon for the gay community and his pardon was in effect a pardon for all those with similar convictions who were dealt with so appallingly.

Still, with solvitquick's post it's no surprise to see homophobia still festers in some small parts in 21st century Britain.

[RATTER15]

Andy, comparing what Turing did to what Saville did is wrong in itself, Turings crime was loving another consenting adult with no victims whatsoever, very different to Saville!

[emmie]

i have given an explanation for that AOG, it came from a pretty reliable source, a homosexual man who is very much in the media eye.
Mr Stephen Fry is surely one of our most well known actors, comedians in Britain, an all round clever chap, he has said that most gays and presumably he knows lots, do not engage in certain practices, or not solely. besides what does it matter

[ludwig]

I suppose the trouble is quite simply that when injustices have been done to people that are dead, they can never be undone.

Pardon, apology, whatever. It's all meaningless. It's more about making ourselves feel better about what happened rather than doing anything for the victim.

[emmie]

i don;t think he wanted to be an icon on the gay community, that was left to the likes of Quentin Crisp, if a pardon is given then it should be to all who were persecuted, imprisoned, no need to name them, a simply apology in the House of Commons to that effect would suffice

[RATTER15]

Naomi, surely not, the queen is pardoning him for an offence that should never have been in place and she is accepting that what happened to him should never have happened, well that is the way I see it.

[anotheoldgit]

Will this mean that everyone who has broken laws in the past for acts that are now no longer illegal, will be entitled to a Royal pardon?