New Arch Bishop...think It Through!

[ToraToraTora]

It seems we should all emulate Saint Mandella,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25566299
I assume he doesn't mean the terrorism bits.

[emmie]

TTT you just linked to the same thing as Chill,
still some can make up their own minds...

[emmie]

there were quite a lot on his death. so wasn't trying to be critical, it was one link that i also found, there were others...

[Kromovaracun]

3T

Would you never take up arms against a corrupt government that resisted all attempts at peaceful change? Aren't there times when that is justified?

[ToraToraTora]

I might but we are not discussing the rights and wrongs of Mandelas actions merely that there were actions of violence and zeuhl among many seems in denial about it.

[Kromovaracun]

Well, using the word "terrorist" does have a moral judgement attached, doesn't it?

[Zeuhl]

T3

The link refers to terrorist attacks in the 1980s

The offences Mandela pleaded guilty to were attacks on property.

The organisation Mandela founded did go on to kill people years later.

But the long-imprisoned Mandela's culpability in that is highly speculative.

If you have any evidence of that please post it now.

[Zeuhl]

T3

Interestingly, your link also implies Mandela was to blame for the Johannesburg Railway Station bombing in 1964.

In fact that was the work of one Frederick Harris, a white member of ARM not the ANC at all.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_John_Harris

[ToraToraTora]

so he committed acts of violence then, not something we should all emulate as suggested by the Arch Bishop.

[boxtops]

Having seen the Archibishop's speech (and overlooking whether or not he should have mentioned Mandela), it is good to have someone in this role who behaves like an ordinary man in the street, not pulling rank - he made his speech in a red pullover.

[Zeuhl]

Did he T3?

Personally?

What are you referring to?

Perhaps he cast the money lenders from the Temple?

[ToraToraTora]

well he pleaded guilty at his trial, you yourself said they where acts against property: "The offences Mandela pleaded guilty to were attacks on property".

[browntrout]

Does it really matter what the Arch Bishop says. who's listening.

[bazwillrun]

poor old Zeuhl...another one on here who hates to be contradicted and doesnt like the word truth

give up the charade we know youre not intelligent as youd like us to think you are

[youngmafbog]

Zehul always does this, typical of the right-on lefty. Everyone else is wrong if you dont agree with my blinkered belief.

As pointed out before, it is really a matter of your point of view (often at the time). I dont think there is much doubt that Mandella was in some way involved in what was seen as terrorist activities at the time.

[jake-the-peg]

Pretty dubious claims from Alex McDonald is who seems to run 'thebackbencher' website out of Taplow.

Mandela's 'acts of violence' seem often alluded to by the right but never substantiated - which I presume is why TTT fell upon this article with so much enthusiasm he failed to spot that Mandela had been in prison for nearly 20 years when these people were killed.

The 'crimes' of violence he was convicted of were of course sabotage against infrastructure targets

If you actually have any killings Mandela was directly associated with let's hear them

Put up or shut up

[mikey4444]

TTT..your comments are offensive.

[Kromovaracun]

Ymb: it's really more to do with the fact that 3T has not provided any evidence to support what he wants to be true. All he really has is that he pleaded guilty at his trial- to acts of ssbotage, not murder. If anyone points this out, 3T doesn't seem willing (or able?) to engage in debate - he just repears the same thing over and over.

Plus he's already admitted that in the right circumstances that armed resistance can be justified. So it's hard to see why exactly this is being used as a criticism against Mandela.

[Zeuhl]

Kromo/jtp/mikey -

no real evidence from the other side then.

Just petty remarks and drivel.

You know your case is won when others on a discussion site actually criticise you for having the effrontery to argue your case!

LOL

[ToraToraTora]

"Plus he's already admitted that in the right circumstances that armed resistance can be justified" - yes kromo, this post is about emulation of a supposed "saint" not the percieved good/bad intentions or justification of the protagonist.

[Kromovaracun]

Okay. And why is saying that we should emulate someone who took up arms against a tyrannical government when all other alternatives had failed such a bad thing to say?