Looks Like The Lentil Crunchers Have Infiltrated Surrey Rugby!

[ToraToraTora]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2547076/How-youngsters-learn-life-dont-let-win-lose-games.html
Because life is really like that isn't it?

[jake-the-peg]

Rather misrepresenting it isn't it?

The site says : the development of the individual comes first, winning second

At that sort of age it's easy for a larger child to dominate with no skill just through size or speed - that doesn't benefit anyone.

They are mixing younger groups into mixed abilities because they think at that age it's more important to develop the skills of the players than to have a bunch of over-competitive parents use their club to try and teach their boys to 'win at any cost'.

Develop younger players - or teach 'win at any cost' - which do you think is more important TTT?

[FredPuli43]

What Surrey Rugby proposes is no more than my old school practised on games afternoons. And my old school wasn't exactly soft; I remember a classmate breaking his leg in one ordinary, games afternoon, rugby game and our being directed to have him moved off the pitch until half-time, whereupon a boy was instructed to walk to the school buildings to have an ambulance summoned. Those were the days !

[ChillDoubt]

Bit of a non story from the Daily Fail. Most mini/junior rugby teams already have that ethos.
The WRU has a pathway called 'Minis to Millenium' which every Welsh club with junior teams must follow. It's core values are that all who attend matches are allowed to participate, regardless of ability.
It's all about fun and encouragement anyway, so 6-11 age groups tend to fit that bill. Beyond 11 it tends to get a tad more serious with selections but at our club the coaches work it so that everyone gets game time regardless.

[ToraToraTora]

well I have huge experience of rugby clubs both playing myself and my sons from the age of 6 to 18, so I think I have some understanding. In my experience when you water the whole thing down nobody wins and the parents drift off an join other clubs. Yes there are some kids a bit bigger who get away with it for a while but the coaches work with that. No rugby club has a win at any cost attitude, they have a "win within the spirit of the game and sportsmanship" attuitude. When my son was 11-12 we had 2 teams, A and B. Now the As would usually win and the Bs would usually lose so the parents of the Bs insisted we have 2 mixed ability teams, which the coach tried for 2 matches, both teams got hammered and the parents of what were the As were very un happy and started to drift to other clubs. This is what will happen in Surrey.

[AB Editor]

I do think competitive sports should remain competitive.

Also, if you're crunching lentils you're doing it wrong - you should boil them first.

Or knit them.

[ChillDoubt]

Then maybe the RFU need to look at things but I don't believe it's all sackcloth and ashes that the Fail makes it out to be.
One difference I notice between the RFU and WRU is with points difference.
My sons team regularly crosses the border to play matches.
We recently beat Orrell U14's 68-0, which can be somewhat demoralising.
In Wales, the WRU stipulate that once there is a 50 point gap, the game ends, regardless of however much time is left on the game clock.

[ToraToraTora]

in formal tournements etc we usually had a 5 try clear, end of game rule.

[ChillDoubt]

The differences are at times startling. As I said, we regularly play teams in England. The WRU pathway introduces lifting in the lineout (uncontested, so that players can build confidence) at U13 level. Apparently, the RFU stipulate that there is to be no lifting whatsoever in junior rugby!

[Maydup]

We have to retain and encourage a sense of competition. It's not the taking part, it's the winning that matters.

But what exactly does it have to do with lentils?

[youngmafbog]

No winners, no loosers is often regarded as the mantle of the right-on liberal, who are also credited with eating lentils and Muselei (ie Veggies)

[emmie]

i read the article and wholeheartedly concurred with the ex Rugby player, his take on making everyone a winner should be nailed up in every school.
Competition is good for boys as well as girls, it's what makes you try your best, either on the rugby field or in a hockey match. I loved winning, but realised early on that you don't always, and that losing isn't the end of the world.

[emmie]

i would have loved to play rugby at school, it just wasn't done then, women do play it, and do very well, it may not have the crunch factor of the men's game and that is to be expected, but one thing i do know that watching a decent game of rugby and going for an after match drink with friends was fun. And never did i see aggresssion after the match between teams or their fans, shake hands then all go for a pint together.

[DaisyNonna]

Have the members of a certain cricket team been eating lentils without permission?

[emmie]

ouch.. ^

[cassa333]

I get the concept but don't think it is right for a team that is in a league because that is the whole point of the team.

However when it comes to 'play games' and practice in schools etc they do need to concentrate more on skills and team work.

For instance my son loves football (he thinks he is as good as some footballing hero) but in fact is a only ok. When in the after school club those that were good just kept the ball regardless of whether there was someone free or not. If they got the ball they just went for it. Therefore my son and the others who weren't as good never got a look in. nd I do mean NEVER!!

They didn't teach TEAM work and NO ONE person wins a game. All they did was teach selfish playing.

[woofgang]

isn't there room for both? And not all good players want to be winners. The son of my friend who was VERY good at football as a teen till he trashed a knee, was offered a chance to move to a much more highly achieving local team but chose to stay where he was because he liked to play in the with his mates.

I do agree that children should learn to win and lose and learn "how to play the game" but not at the expense of the pleasure of playing in teams.

lastly i think that the article mixes up two points. its one thing to believe that competition is good for children, and another to belive that risk of injury is a good thing. Kids can be just as competitive at touch or tag rugby as they can at full contact.

[emmie]

woof, one thing if the lads want to play at a higher level, if they are good enough to play for a club or country, they have to have that instinct, and touch, tag rugby won't instil that in them. Rough and tumble it used to be called,
having said that some children who don't like games, and never will should be excused from them, i never believe that you should be made to do sports. Reading a book whilst the other boys, girls are out playing, seems a good way to pass the time

[woofgang]

emmie, the "lads" are aged 6 to 11!!

[emmie]

i know, they are lads, not lassies,

[emmie]

if they don't want to play, and the parents don't want them to either, then surely they wouldn't.