What The ....... ?

[youngmafbog]

http://news.sky.com/story/1234404/patients-should-pay-10-nhs-membership-fee

And from a labour person too. Doesn't he realise we already pay a fortune in tax to fund this outdated institution that refuses to bring itself into the 21st century?

It needs slimming down and the rubbish removed first. Brown tried more money it simply disappeared.

[LazyGun]

That was one of the measures proposed in his report that obviously catches the eye, and I would imagine most peoples response would be similar to yours. Some other of his proposals merit discussion; A read of the executive summary of the report is interesting

http://reform.co.uk/resources/0000/1247/Solving_the_NHS_care_and_cash_crisis.pdf

[youngmafbog]

Not much in there any of us couldn't have written. Have these two be logging into AB?

But to suggest more money, wherever it comes from, is a joke. There are big savings to be made, the problem is left wingers with an axe to grind coupled with management with a self interest means they cut front line services rather than the bloated management.

It needs the likes of Branson, Lehey and Rose to pile in and knock some heads together. It has to be run as a business, even if it does not make money.

[Gromit]

// And from a Labour person too. //

Is this the same Norman warner who works for a number of private international consulting organisation including PA Consulting ltd and DLA Piper ?

He works for the private healthcare sector and he is advising that the NHS should maximise its money making potential by charging £10 a month to see a doctor and turning the general hospital into a branch of 'Travel Lodge'.

A very bad idea. The people on benefits will get it for free, those with money will go private, leaving the hard working taxpayer to foot the bill for this stealth tax.

[ToraToraTora]

ridiculous, typical lefty approach, more tax rather than efficiency savings, they could strip out the umpteen layers of management and save a bundle.

The NHS is a bottomless pit it will swallow any amount of money.

It needs running like a proper business not a workers cooperative. It should remain public sector but be run using private sector principles. Then we would see significant savings and efficiency improvments.

[jno]

well spotted, Gromit.

I suspect a trawl for photos would prove him to be non-obese and therefore upset that he has to pay for treating ailments in others that he doesn't have himself.

[jno]

TTT, the only private-sector principle is to make money and give it to shareholders.

[LazyGun]

We have had umpteen reorganisations, too, all of which have promised to refocus on the front line and remove/reduce the administration. None have managed to achieve that.

I am no particular fan of Lord Warner, or reform, the centre-right think tank with whom this report was produced, but the future challenges facing health services are very real, and there is no question that the manner in which clinical and support services are offered needs to be re-organised.

And which "private sector principles" do you believe need to be introduced into the NHS that would see significant savings and efficiency improvements. 3T?

[ToraToraTora]

I mean make it efficient, make it do the function it intended for. There are more clerks than beds, that cannot right. No jno I'm not talking about making a profit for shareholders because I'm not talking about privatisation. I'm talking about running it like a proper business but within the public sector, not easy I grant you but that's what it needs.

[youngmafbog]

Start with run it lean and mean Lazy. At the moment in some areas it is run like a social club, no idea of the real world.

The NHS do have 'shareholders' - The British public.

[youngmafbog]

We seem to be pretty much on agreement there TTT. Seems obvious what has to be done.

Of course the lefties wont accept that the workforce will shrink drastically once bureaucracy is cut and all staff actually have to do something.

No doubt Unison will object.

[LazyGun]

Yes, but what does "run it lean and mean" actually mean, 3T? What examples of business practice in the private sector do you have that are not employed within the NHS?

And how are you measuring the efficiency of the NHS? What are you comparing it to?

[Gromit]

3T More efficient like the private sector?

You mean like Atos.

[ToraToraTora]

The primary function of the NHS is clear, in that respect it is no different from a factory scenario. Any factory diverts as much resources as it can in producing the product and as little as possible in administration. That's what the NHS needs to do. The NHS management would do well to visit a japanese car factory.

[youngmafbog]

Clearly not Gromit.

[youngmafbog]

Take it you agree with bloated management and wasted money away from front line services then Gromit?

Or were you just trying to be funny?

[LazyGun]

I am still trying to get a handle on your perceptions of the NHS and its management when compared to other industry sectors, 3T. How many managers does the NHS have?

[Svejk]

if it was run properly we wouldnt see the £5billion pa lost to fraud which gromit high-lighted last week.

[LazyGun]

@Svejk And do you know how the "£5billion in fraud" figure was arrived at?

[youngmafbog]

The problem is not soley management staff but the management system, ie the non medical staff. In addition it is poor management which of course leads to a bloated structure.

My personal perceptions come mainly from my daughter who is a doctor in a hospital in the Midlands and my wife (who is part of that management) who works in the South. Whilst this is only two areas they are different trusts and seem to share the same problem.

Generally a structure in business would have 8 people reporting into 1 one way or another.

What we are suggesting is nothing more than many companies go through every 10 years or so. The NHS has never done it over 65 years. It needs reorganising correctly not just shuffling people around and paying them then taking them on.

[Svejk]

ask yer mate, gromit. he posted it. lol.