Soaring Petrol Prices.

[nedflanders]

Why is it that nobody seems to be bothered that the cost of petrol has risen to almost �1 a litre of diesel?  Are we all so rich that we find this a fair price? Gordon Brown must be pi$$ing himself laughing thinking he has won the lottery! Surely the hauliers must be at breaking point either that or inflation is about to rocket?

[BigDogsWang]

Can't understand why the Haulage industry is not up in arms, as much as it was 5 years ago when it went over �0.80p a litre.

[jno]

I said this on another thread recently, but basically the problem is that oil is a finite resource - they're not making any more of it - and we have to compete with Americans and Chinese for it. There's no such thing as a 'fair price'; the price tit gets is the price people are willing to pay for it. If it's too expensive for you, you just have to buy less of it. There is a country where you can get it for only a few cents a litre... but do you want to live in Nigeria?

[jno]

uh, the price it gets...

[nedflanders]

I appreciate that jno but my point is that our government tax petrol more than every other european country so since they are raking it in why cant they reduce the tax rate temporarily to soften the blow? I wonder if they actually want to improve public transport as this would cost them in the outrageous amount they rake in from motorists? 

[BigDogsWang]

It's only a few cents a litre in USA and Canada. Wouldn't mind living there!

[BigDogsWang]

I'm fortunate in that my company pay for my fuel (although I do pay tax on it), but I sympathise with the haulage industry as they are taxed at every turn. Increases in haulage costs affect everyone, as the increases have to be passed on to Joe Public.

[jno]

the UK government taxes petrol, but then again the roads are free (except for a few bridges/tunnels), unlike the autoroutes in France and quite a few in the USA and other countries. Different countries raise revenues in different ways, swings and roundabouts. I don't think there's anything temporary about the rising price of oil - it may slow down for a while, but the long-term trend is always going to be upwards - so I don't think there's any point in temporary tax relief; the government would only get more stick when they raised it again.

[georgit79]

I think it'd be cheaper if I took a learjet into work every morning...

[Clanad]

Ummm... can't speak to Canada, but prices here in U.S. have recently topped $2.50 per gallon (standard unit sold) which works out to near 62 cents, U.S. per liter.  Though everyone here is upset it still doesn't equal, dollar for dollar, the increase experienced during the oil embargo here in 1973-1974... Our fuel is taxed, of course, but not only at the Federal Government level, but each smaller political subdivision, State,County and sometimes cities tax it as well.  Reports indicate, that at least in the U.S., oil supplies are tight, but sufficient, however the refining industry hasn't been able to build a new refinery for over 25 years.  This is due, primarily, to layers and layers of environmental laws that make building new ones prohibitvely expensive. 

One puzzling aspect is that, during the Second World War, Germany ran almost all of it's war machine on synthetic oil derived from coal.  Here in the western U.S., especially the State of Wyoming, over 500 years worth of easily strip mined high quality, low sulphur coal is available, yet the production of synthetic petroleum products is miniscule... go figure... (and I'm not even  a conspiracy theorist)...

[nedflanders]

Thats 35p ($0.62) compared to our 93p Clanad !

[spinchimp]

Ok ned, if they reduce the tax what public services would you like them to spend less on then?

[BigDogsWang]

Wars that no one wants, and general Government waste:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3256637.stm

[kempie]

spinchimp - why should road related taxes fund anything other than transport?

If you compare revenue (VED, Fuel Duty & VAT) to expenditure (Roads & Public Transport) you will see that in the UK

1975 -  rev = �13.8bn   |   exp = �12.8bn     approx  1:1
2001 -  rev = �37.7bn   |   exp = �7bn         approx  5:1

so transport already subsidises other sectors to the tune of �30bn.

[robbieh]

Out of interest, why shouldn't it pay for something other than transport?
If you don't get taxed there you'll get taxed somewhere else. But you can bet the same people will complain that if it were taken from somewhere else that it would just be a stealth tax (you know the same one that milions of people complain about)? People will always complain about paying tax. We are going to get taxed one way or another. If it doesn't come from here it will come from somewhere else. Would you rather they introduced a tax instead where everyone pays set rates, like council tax (you know the same one that milions of people complain about)? Would you rather it was lots of little hidden "stealth" taxes. Or would you rather pay a tax that you can, on the whole, choose what you want to pay, and isn't "stealth"!?

[kempie]

I have no problem with paying taxes, they are a fiscal necessity, however there is certainly no need for them to be stealthy.

For example, the NHS should be payed for out of NI contributions - if they need to increase, so be it. At least there would be transparency on where the money (predominantly) goes.

Where is the justification in picking an arbitrary sector to fund another? Would you agree with all redheads having to pay more VAT than blondes?

I do not understand your final point. Are you suggesting that motorists and hauliers can choose how much they pay for their fuel?

[Hippy]

The cost of running buses has risen faster than inflation, and fuel is a mighty big part of the cost of providing the service. Another high contributor to the cost is driver wages. Now drivers almost to a person travel to and from work by car at wholly unsociable times. Their fuel bills are rising and they are asking for pay rises to better afford to come to work. The companies are being squeezed on these two fronts and furthermore are reluctant to increase fares as this almost certainly results in lower ridership and hence reduced farebox revenue. More squeezing.

I notice that price inflation has just exceeded the Bank of England's guide for the first time in ages. The cost of fuel is contributing to some "realignment" of business cost/price formulae.

Of course it is the hauler and transport Industry that is expected to "absorb" the increases, as if they are gigantic sources of unending money from the sky. This is not the case. When fuel prices rise the Government (on our behalf?) strip a greater tax take, and we as users and consumers all end up paying more and effectively earning less.

[Andy008]

I hardly think Gordon Brown is laughing, he doesn't work on commission.

The rise in prices is due largely to the vast daily demand from India and China.

[Phantaxus]

We all need to give up our cars for a week and use public transport. Public transport will not be able to cope the country will grind to a halt and the government will have to step in and do something about it.

And while I am on my soap box what about those rail companies a few weeks ago putting up fares on peak services because too many people are using them. Government taxes us off the road and when we make use of the privately owned public transport the fat cats there try to tax us off that and back into our cars again - you cant win

right im done now im going to go and lie down

[nedflanders]

Andy he will be laughing, obviously not cos of personal gain but cos it makes his job so much easier and takes pressure off him.  He doesn't need to find (in stealth taxes) as much money to pay for the defecit of tax to spend (i.e. to cover the costs of the extra spend they have made on the NHS and the Iraq war.

[brachiopod]

I would agree with Andy008.

Gordon Brown would hardly be 'laughing'. Although admittedly VAT receipts from petrol would increase, (being a percentage tax on the total selling price), Fuel Duty is a fixed amount in pence per litre which is reviewed (ie. increased) each budget. The current increase in petrol prices is directly linked to the increase in the price of crude.

Secondly, spiralling petrol prices will fuel inflation (no pun intended), and thus stick a spanner in the catburettor (pun intended) of Gordon's plans for the economy.

Gordon laugh? He never started.