Are The Tories Right To Try And Force A Form Of Democracy Onto The Unions?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2696597/Tories-ban-strikes-half-workers-Pledge-change-law-win-election-prevent-two-thirds-walkouts.html

That's my third thread today, so I will don my Panama replace my specs (not rose tinted kind may I add) with my Ray-Ban Aviators, and get outdoors on this the hottest day this year.

[sandyRoe]

Do be careful, AOG. The heats not so good for us oldies.

[Zeuhl]

Is this a 'form of democracy' that the politicians don't adhere to?

(Good idea aog - I'm off to the beach for a swim :-))

[anotheoldgit]

Oops, correction it now seems I have only posted only two, seems that I may be limited or I have touched on a raw nerve somewhere.

[Zeuhl]

i think one of your OPs might have been pulled to protect you from further suspicions of egotism/delusions of grandeur LOL

[mikey4444]

dave ended up as PM in 2010, after winning just 36.1% of the popular vote, on a turn-out of 65.1%. People who's maths are less rusty than mine will be able to give an exact figure for the percentage dave got of the possible vote but it would appear to be a lot less than 36.1%

So if this low number is OK to end up winning the election, I am unsure why it isn't OK to call a strike for ?

[anotheoldgit]

sandyRoe

/// Do be careful, AOG. The heats not so good for us oldies ///

Agree, oh for the days of the punkawallah, and relaxing on the veranda with an ice cold Gin and T, (purely for medicinal purposes of course). :0)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-aaQdQeNhtho/T_oGMpU7BII/AAAAAAAAEew/WByMflNUg_A/s1600/punka_wallah.jpg

Hope none of you think this at all racist, just a bit of fun in these sensitive times.

[jno]

if union votes can be voided because not enough people vote, the same should of course be true of electoral votes.

[royfromaus]

Excellent point, jno.

[New Judge]

I think the main difference between a vote for strike action and a vote to elect your MP in a General Election is that of the status quo. At the time of a general election the country has no government (Parliament having been dissolved) and it seems one is required (though Belgium, I think it was, did quite well without one for some time not too long ago). But accepting that one is needed, a vote of a small proportion of the electorate will have to do as the status quo (no government) cannot remain. The alternative would be for no government to be formed unless 75% (or whatever percentage is decided) have cast votes. Also to be borne in mind is that even if 100% of the electorate cast their votes the winning party would almost certainly come to power with less than 50% of the popular vote.

When a vote for strike action is called the status quo (i.e. no strike action) is quite satisfactory. I accept that it is equally valid to say "if people want no strike action they should be bothered to vote" as it is to say "if people want strike action they should be bothered to vote". But I think that in the case of an industrial dispute the status quo is probably more acceptable than in the case of a general election where the nation has no government. It's just a thought.

[Canary42]

If 50% minimum turnout becomes the norm for Unions it should apply everywhere else - including in the Palace of Westminster (i.e. House of Commons and House of Lords).

This is just another attack by the greedy rich on the much poorer working classes.

[Quizmonster]

Fewer than four in every ten of London's electorate - 38%, actually - even turned out to vote in the election of 2012 which gave Boris Johnson another bite of the Mayoral cherry. Nevertheless, he is one of the major proponents of restricting the validity of union votes based on turnout percentage!
I'm sure London could get along perfectly well without a political mayor forever and a day if need be, so any 'status quo' argument is irrelevant there. Given Belgium's experience, much the same applies to governmental elections.
Not a single MP currently at Westminster gained the support of over 50% of his/her electorate, so they should all be dismissed if the Tories get this latest employment scam through!

[naomi24]

Yes. Perhaps that would encourage members to vote. At the polling stations the voter has multiple choices - resulting in a multiple split in percentages. A vote to strike is a 'yes/no' - a vote that is only split two ways.

[New Judge]

I quite agree about an elected Mayor, QM. Londoners were conned into believing they were going to have a "Rudy Giuliani" type character. Instead all they got was a Regional Assembly (which was never mentioned too much - if at all - when voters were asked if they wanted a Mayor) replacing the GLC which Mrs Thatcher had gone to such great lengths to dispose of. London without a Mayor and assembly would get on perfectly well.

[anotheoldgit]

Canary42

/// This is just another attack by the greedy rich on the much poorer working classes. ///

How can this possibly be an attack by the greedy rich on the more poorer working classes? That is simply ridiculous, if the majority of those 'poor working classes' don't want to become even more poorer by losing pay for the days they are on strike then so be it.

One will notice that the Union bosses do not lose any money while their members are out on strike.

[THECORBYLOON]

In the House of Commons, only forty of the 650 MPs need be present for a Division (vote) to take place. If new legislation can be decided by only 6% of our MPs, will that be looked at?

[Quizmonster]

Are you suggesting, Naomi, that - in the event of a political election attracting only two candidates - the vote would be invalid? I can't really see the difference between choosing "this Tory bloke/that Labour woman" and "strike/no strike".

[Svejk]

let me put it in plain English for you as you seem particularly dim today.
You have to have a government, you don't have to have a strike.

[TWR]

Without the unions we would be working in Sweat houses A.O.G. that would suit these parasites down to the ground as they give M.Ps a 11% rise

[THECORBYLOON]

So then, 50% of those eligible take part in a ballot. If 60% of those who voted, vote for action, that means 30% of all members voted for a strike and a strike would be legal. If, in a second ballot, only 40% of those entitled to vote did so, what if every one of them voted for a strike? In the second vote, a higher percentage of the entire membership voted for industrial action but it would not be legal-is that democratic?

[naomi24]

Quizmonster, no, I’m not saying that. In a General Election it isn’t simply a matter of choosing between 'this Tory bloke or that Labour woman'. All the other parties also take a share of the vote. Therefore, a General Election is never just a two horse race and can’t be compared to a vote to strike or not, which offers only two options.