News10 mins ago
Converting To Islam
It appears that quite a lot of people who go on to become Islamic terrorist were not born into the faith, but converted to it.
I do not have any figures, but the Shoebomber, some of the 7/7 gang, Lee Rigby killers, and now IS members, seem to have joined the religion at an adult age. That is not to say most fanatics were born into the religion, but the percentage of converts appears higher than it should be.
A phrase I also see is "Converted to Islam while in Prison". They have already slid into criminality, and Islam is supposed to be part of their rehabilitation. I am not clear whether fellow inmates are converting them, or an Home Office programme, but the results are not good.
1. Do you agree that converts pose an increased danger?
2. Should religious activity be discouraged in prison?
3. Are criminals interested in radical islam because it seems to justify violence?
4. Do, or should, the Home Office keep a record of people who have converted to Islam while in prison?
5. Should those who have been identified as prison converts be monitored further on their release?
I do not have any figures, but the Shoebomber, some of the 7/7 gang, Lee Rigby killers, and now IS members, seem to have joined the religion at an adult age. That is not to say most fanatics were born into the religion, but the percentage of converts appears higher than it should be.
A phrase I also see is "Converted to Islam while in Prison". They have already slid into criminality, and Islam is supposed to be part of their rehabilitation. I am not clear whether fellow inmates are converting them, or an Home Office programme, but the results are not good.
1. Do you agree that converts pose an increased danger?
2. Should religious activity be discouraged in prison?
3. Are criminals interested in radical islam because it seems to justify violence?
4. Do, or should, the Home Office keep a record of people who have converted to Islam while in prison?
5. Should those who have been identified as prison converts be monitored further on their release?
Answers
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AOG,
Of course not. We do not have ANY banned religions. It would be impossible to enforce, and it goes against everything Britishness stands for.
My question was differentiating between law abiding people who have been brought up muslim and live law abiding lives, and converts who were already criminals, and using Islam to engage in violence and killing.
Of course not. We do not have ANY banned religions. It would be impossible to enforce, and it goes against everything Britishness stands for.
My question was differentiating between law abiding people who have been brought up muslim and live law abiding lives, and converts who were already criminals, and using Islam to engage in violence and killing.
I guess anyone taking up a new hobby shows early enthusiasm.
1. Yes
2. Yes.
3. Possibly but I think initially they see it as a way to get extra privilidges etc, ie let out to pray 5 times a day etc.
4. They should not sure if they do, personally this religion is getting so dangerous I'd make them all register.
5. Yes.
1. Yes
2. Yes.
3. Possibly but I think initially they see it as a way to get extra privilidges etc, ie let out to pray 5 times a day etc.
4. They should not sure if they do, personally this religion is getting so dangerous I'd make them all register.
5. Yes.
converts, or re-converts (those "born again"), are often the most enthusiastic proselytisers for any religion.
It's part of a much wider behaviour, I think: you come across something you think is really good so you tell people about it.
As for prison converts - I wonder if the problem is the conversion or the prison. People with time on their hands think about things.
It's part of a much wider behaviour, I think: you come across something you think is really good so you tell people about it.
As for prison converts - I wonder if the problem is the conversion or the prison. People with time on their hands think about things.
Conversion to a religion creates the same effect as joining a gang - it gives misplaced individuals a sense of identity and belonging.
Long-term American prisoners tend to opt for one or the other - a gang or Muslim faith.
It should be pointed out that the Muslim path is rooted in peace and belonging, rather than the gang option which requires instant assistance from any member if a fight occurs and one of your gaing is involved.
The dissafectation of young men is an issue that is difficult to address, but it could be alleaviated in a large measure if children were given a set of appropriate values and attitudes at pre-school age, which would make the concept of interaction and belonging the norm, instead of the alienation and isolation that leads to conversions too extreme religious factions.
Long-term American prisoners tend to opt for one or the other - a gang or Muslim faith.
It should be pointed out that the Muslim path is rooted in peace and belonging, rather than the gang option which requires instant assistance from any member if a fight occurs and one of your gaing is involved.
The dissafectation of young men is an issue that is difficult to address, but it could be alleaviated in a large measure if children were given a set of appropriate values and attitudes at pre-school age, which would make the concept of interaction and belonging the norm, instead of the alienation and isolation that leads to conversions too extreme religious factions.
Christianity has been enrolling new recruits for 2000 years and look where that has got us !
I don't see that it is anybodies business, let alone the Governments, what religion anybody subscribes to. Even if we knew how many Brits had converted to Islam, how would that help us when a few of them are 1000's of miles away ?
As regards religious activity being "discouraged" in prison, wouldn't that have to be applied to everybody, Christians as well a others ?
The ability to differentiate between law abiding people and converts is impossible.
I don't see that it is anybodies business, let alone the Governments, what religion anybody subscribes to. Even if we knew how many Brits had converted to Islam, how would that help us when a few of them are 1000's of miles away ?
As regards religious activity being "discouraged" in prison, wouldn't that have to be applied to everybody, Christians as well a others ?
The ability to differentiate between law abiding people and converts is impossible.
AOG - "andy-hughes
/// Conversion to a religion creates the same effect as joining a gang - it gives misplaced individuals a sense of identity and belonging. ///
I do hope your good wife isn't reading this Andy?"
Unlikely AOG, but my view is nothing I have not advised on the occasions when we discuss religion.
When she was a Head Teacher, the protracted fight to remove a teacher who was physically abusing children was lost because the teacher's friends in the local priesthood closed ranks and protected her.
The strain cost my wife her career, and her health, and for a long time, her faith was seriously damaged.
I opined at the time that I was glad not to have a faith, to have it so seriously undermined by the wilful protection of a woman abusing children with the full knowledge of the Christian Brothers.
I don't have a problem with the idea that God does not protect his servants, or his children - he doesn't exist, but I know that the additional burden of a crisis of faith did not help matters at all for my wonderful wife.
I do believe that religion encourages bonding and shared experience - that is the pleasure I get from attending Mass every Sunday - but I could never believe that religion is worth fighting for, dying for, or as in the case of this tragedy, murdering others for.
/// Conversion to a religion creates the same effect as joining a gang - it gives misplaced individuals a sense of identity and belonging. ///
I do hope your good wife isn't reading this Andy?"
Unlikely AOG, but my view is nothing I have not advised on the occasions when we discuss religion.
When she was a Head Teacher, the protracted fight to remove a teacher who was physically abusing children was lost because the teacher's friends in the local priesthood closed ranks and protected her.
The strain cost my wife her career, and her health, and for a long time, her faith was seriously damaged.
I opined at the time that I was glad not to have a faith, to have it so seriously undermined by the wilful protection of a woman abusing children with the full knowledge of the Christian Brothers.
I don't have a problem with the idea that God does not protect his servants, or his children - he doesn't exist, but I know that the additional burden of a crisis of faith did not help matters at all for my wonderful wife.
I do believe that religion encourages bonding and shared experience - that is the pleasure I get from attending Mass every Sunday - but I could never believe that religion is worth fighting for, dying for, or as in the case of this tragedy, murdering others for.
andy-hughes
/// I do believe that religion encourages bonding and shared experience - that is the pleasure I get from attending Mass every Sunday - but I could never believe that religion is worth fighting for, dying for, or as in the case of this tragedy, murdering others for. ////
Attending Mass? All a little hypocritical for an atheist I would say.
Regarding your last statement that surely is dependant on which religion you belong to.
/// I do believe that religion encourages bonding and shared experience - that is the pleasure I get from attending Mass every Sunday - but I could never believe that religion is worth fighting for, dying for, or as in the case of this tragedy, murdering others for. ////
Attending Mass? All a little hypocritical for an atheist I would say.
Regarding your last statement that surely is dependant on which religion you belong to.
AOG - "Attending Mass? All a little hypocritical for an atheist I would say."
You are of course entitled to your view.
I don;t see any hypocracy - I am not pretending to be a Christian, I do not receive communion, I do not denegrate the congregation of the church, merely the precepts of the people who run it.
So I have no problem in being supportive to my wife by attending Mass with her - which is my primary reason - and if God has a problem, we can sort that out when we meet - or not.
You are of course entitled to your view.
I don;t see any hypocracy - I am not pretending to be a Christian, I do not receive communion, I do not denegrate the congregation of the church, merely the precepts of the people who run it.
So I have no problem in being supportive to my wife by attending Mass with her - which is my primary reason - and if God has a problem, we can sort that out when we meet - or not.
I believe most of them 'convert' to get better food, as simple as that. There's also safety in numbers and they take on the role of a prisoners 'union'.
Most of them, having availed themselves of the benefits in prison, will, thankfully, revert to their pilfering, drug dealing ways on release.
However, there'll be a few 'right thickos' who, while they've never thought about politics or their role in society, have a sense of grievance, a sense that life's not fair, lol.
For instance, why do the police pull them over in their cars just because they haven't got insurance, or say, a driving licence when they 'obviously' wouldn't pull a white guy over for little things like that.
When they get hold of that seething resentment, they can feed it and then mould it to do 'bad things'. That's my theory, anyway, and I'm sticking to it.
Most of them, having availed themselves of the benefits in prison, will, thankfully, revert to their pilfering, drug dealing ways on release.
However, there'll be a few 'right thickos' who, while they've never thought about politics or their role in society, have a sense of grievance, a sense that life's not fair, lol.
For instance, why do the police pull them over in their cars just because they haven't got insurance, or say, a driving licence when they 'obviously' wouldn't pull a white guy over for little things like that.
When they get hold of that seething resentment, they can feed it and then mould it to do 'bad things'. That's my theory, anyway, and I'm sticking to it.
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