Any Sympathy For These Guys?

[ToraToraTora]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2754241/Held-IS-five-jihadi-Brits-want-home-Wantaway-fighters-stripped-weapons-marched-punishment-centre.html

[ludwig]

No sympathy whatsoever.

[Peter Pedant]

for obiter - raisins virgins or houri ?

" His most famous example deals with what the Muslim martyrs could expect in the afterlife. Luxenburg argues that the Arabic huri, or “virgins”, is actually a mistranslation of the Aramaic/Syriac word for “white grapes” or raisins, hur. "

wha' the serious point is that he said "you gonna get 72 raisins and f+ the virgins ... "

I dunno - would you really go to heaven for 72 raisins awaiting you ?


My comment is: hur hur hur

[Bazile]

Were they fighting the people whoom the Americans and British government classed as our enemies . i.e assad etc ?

[Huderon]

What a hard hearted lot you are. No sympathy for people who, through ignorance, stupidity or idealism, get themselves into a situation they come to regret and try to get out of.

Would you perhaps, have felt the same way about those who got themselves tangled up in, say, the Children of Got cult and wanted out ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04g86bx is not about young Muslims, though the whole programme is worth listening to for other reasons, but there is an interesting piece at around 17:20 which might, and I do stress might, provide some insight as to why young Muslims head off to get tangled up in jihad.

[agchristie]

Some conditional sympathy offered here?

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29203159

[andy-hughes]

Huderon - may I respectfully point you to my first post on this thread - page one, four from the bottom.

Thanks.

[naomi24]

Huderon, //Would you perhaps, have felt the same way about those who got themselves tangled up in, say, the Children of Got cult and wanted out ? //

That's a very poor analogy. Victims of the Children of God cult don't pose a potential threat to the security of this country or to the safety of its people.

[janbee]

None !

[ludwig]

// No sympathy for people who, through ignorance, stupidity or idealism, get themselves into a situation they come to regret and try to get out of. //

I hear what you're saying, but personally after a lifetime of seeing stupid people doing stupid things for stupid reasons I've got sympathy fatigue.
When those stupid things involve wanting to commit violent acts for a religious cause I'm even less inclined to care.

[TWR]

Why, let the ***, die in their ***, they were ready to kill others.

[Baldric]

"Frankly My Dear!"

[Huderon]

naomi, it may have been a poor analogy given that the CoG were a nuisance and didn't offer violence to those who disagreed with them, but it was the one which came to mind.

I am, however, curious as to why you assume that those volunteers, for want of a better word, who have become disillusioned and want to come home again pose a threat to the security of this country and the safety of it's residents.

Some may well pose such a threat, and I'm sure the security services would interview all who return and keep tabs on them for some time to come. But unless there is evidence to the contrary, suggesting that all of them pose a threat is going a bit too far.

[Huderon]

divebuddy, I have no idea. However, as I mentioned elsewhere, the German scheme, Hayat, has had some success and is going to open an office here with Home Office support.

The way I see it is this. You have young Muslims who meet radical friends either via the mosque, youth groups or social media, become radical themselves and get sold on the idea of saving the world (well Islam anyway) from the threat posed by the West.

They then go out to Syria and Iraq and sign up with ISIL. As they have no military experience, they get some basic training and then, perhaps, get sent out to fight. since they have been educated and raised over here, they are, despite their radicalism, influenced by their education and upbringing an see and experience things out there which disillusion them. They then want to get out of there and come home.

I don't see a disillusioned young Muslim as being a serious threat to our security or safety, so I doubt that the security services would need to keep track of them full time. And I also think that, having experienced what things are really like out there, at least some of these young men could be used to help prevent others from going out there as well.

However I'm not a complete idiot, and I don't think that all of the ones who return will be disillusioned - some may well threaten the safety of our citizens and the security of our country, so there would have to be some sorting of the wheat from the chaff. How you do that, I have no idea, but I don't think that presuming that all who return are guilty is the way to go.

[DaisyNonna]

Sympathy for killers? That was their intention.

[naomi24]

Huderon, //How you do that, I have no idea//

Well, until you do, may I suggest that you really think about what you are giving the benefit of the doubt to and desist from encouraging the rest of us to trust that the returning Jihadists have our best interests at heart.

[Huderon]

andy-hughes, I apologise for implying that everyone responding to the OP was hard hearted. The reference was aimed at the majority of responses which indicated no sympathy for those young men.

[Huderon]

naomi, there are a lot of things I don't know how to do. Some of them, given time, decent teaching and guidance, I could learn to do, others I don't have a hope of learning.

However there are people who do know how to do the things I can't do, and I trust them to get on with doing those things.

[sandyRoe]

These failed Jehadists are probably little more than boys who went with their heads full of romantic ideas and were soon disillusioned by the harsh reality of war.
They're not battle-hardened extremists, but rather youngsters who now know there's a lot to be said for an 'ordinary' peaceful life back home.