British Nationals Murdered Abroad.

[Khandro]

Figures from the Foreign Office show that around 60 British nationals are murdered abroad each year. Does the murder of one, no matter how grotesque the circumstances, justify going to war?

[naomi24]

Khandro, //IS has no meaningful relationship to religion//

They think they do - very much so. Religion is their sole motivation.

[redvanman]

YES

[vetuste_ennemi]

Whether their motives are SOLELY religious, or whether (possibly like Saladin, Mehmet and the Mahdi) they may be an admixture of religious and more worldly aims, nonetheless their JUSTIFICATION is entirely religious. Or has something been lost in the translation?
Chianti and roast lamb. Good night.

[Khandro]

v_e. That was not the OP (which you said implied cowardice).
n. As someone eschewing all religion, you amaze me that you want to participate in what you perceive as a religious war.

[Kromovaracun]

For once I'm sympathetic to Khandro's point. If we're going to talk about war, then moral justification should come after we have carefully considered how effective our intervention would be, and whether it would achieve the goals it is supposed to.

This isn't a conversation I see happening anywhere.

[naomi24]

Khandro, you’re making it up again. I said the aggressor is motivated by religion, but that doesn’t make opponents Crusaders!! Sheesh!

[ukanonymous]

Khandro. Freedom of speech is good and the moment it stops is when we lose freedom. I however don't agree with a thing you say and you miss the point of the factor that started the whole problem. If our leaders were capable and actually gave a flying f%*& about its citizens then we would not be in this situation. We as individuals need to change this terrible world. Little bit by little bit.

[naomi24]

Krom, //This isn't a conversation I see happening anywhere. //

Judging by his last comment to me, thank goodness for that!

[Kromovaracun]

what?

[ludwig]

// Can we expect Ludwig and mikey to be heading off to Syria soon, or would they prefer to send agents on their behalf? //

Agents obviously - people who know how to use guns and bombs. Will you be heading off there to try and talk some sense into the militants? To explain to them that chopping people's heads off and crucifying them isn't very nice?
No, thought not.

[Prudie]

Is this 60 just Brits murdered in war/terror situations or does it include those knocked off by criminals or jealous partners in the Costas for example? I'd rather we didn't go to war with Spain.

[naomi24]

Krom, Khandro appears to be suffering under the delusion that anyone who feels that military intervention is necessary here is championing a religious war.

Prudie, I agree.

[agchristie]

When an organisation such as IS wreaks terror, procures territory, takes hostages, displaces thousands, forces conversion, fails to reason, wont negotiate, I consider this more than a justification to go to war.

[Khandro]

It appears to me, to be a so-called 'religious war' carried out by the so-called 'religious', but in reality it is fanaticism, tribal, and to some extent territorial, and all fuelled by Iranian and Saudi Arabian ignoramuses.
Sunnis, Shias, Alawites, Kurds, in an apocalyptic pre-destined battle to the death. Do you want to take part in it?
me, or anyone on my behalf? - no thanks!
As the ex-military Commander says, we should ask ourselves two questions;
(1) What needs to be done?
(2) What can realistically BE done?
Beware of specious knee-jerk reactions by second-rate leadership, carried out to demonstrate to their electorate and peer groups how they are 'acting decisively'. Hasn't there has been enough British blood spilt in the sand?

[Kromovaracun]

Agreed. I don't think anyone finds the idea of standing by pleasant, but we really should think about what sacrificing more lives will actually accomplish.

[naomi24]

Khandro, you quote a nameless ex-military Commander who says:

//we should ask ourselves two questions;

(1) What needs to be done?

(2) What can realistically BE done?//

Do you think his answer to those questions from an ex-military commander is “nothing”? I doubt that very much.

You say that this is ”an apocalyptic PRE-DESTINED battle to the death.”

Are you quite sure you’re not confusing reality with fantasy?

Krom, if we stand by and do nothing I fear that in the long term a great many more lives will be sacrificed. In the absence of opposition these people will be holding the whole world to ransom.

[Khandro]

naomi; // you quote a nameless ex-military Commander// I beg his pardon for not remembering his name. About 3 weeks ago he was on, I think, Ch. 4 news on two consecutive evenings interviewed in his garden, he was an ex-general maybe - perhaps others saw him. He didn't say, as you suggest "do nothing", he said we must ask what can we do. (My view is we should have given support to Assad a long time ago).

//You say that this is ”an apocalyptic PRE-DESTINED battle to the death.”

Are you quite sure you’re not confusing reality with fantasy?//

I suggest you enter 'Ahmadinejad's Apocalypse' into Google, take your pick, and find out what he (who hasn't gone away) and many other fruit cakes like him actually believe it's all about.

[naomi24]

Khandro, you’re tying yourself up in knots again. You don’t think it’s a good idea for us to go to war with ISIS, and offer the words of an unnamed ex-military commander, one assumes, in support of your opinion. Further on we discover that he doesn’t actually support your opinion – he’s simply saying that we should ask ‘what needs to be done?’ and ‘what realistically can be done?’ – both questions most or us ask, I would have thought. Then you talk about ‘pre-destined’ apocalypse, and offer in support of that the words of a man you subsequently described as a ‘fruit cake’. What are you talking about?

[Khandro]

naomi; When it comes to matters of the Middle-East, perhaps you'd be better sticking with your researches into early Phoenician flying machines, and leave 21st century politics alone :0)