Bloody Sunday 1972

[agchristie]

Criminal Investigation in doubt due to cutbacks in police funding.

Should the British Army Paras face a full investigation over the 1972 incident?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/northernireland/11155166/Bloody-Sunday-Paras-investigation-in-doubt-after-police-cuts.html

[tamborine]

I recall London being awash with IRA bombing throughout the 70-80s. Many innocent Londoners were killed and injured from letter/litter & car bombs. My Baker Street works were closed for a week for repairs from a litter bin bomb. I daresay this was IRA retaliation. Ours was a legal practice arranging West End shows but we were cut & covered in smashed window panes. Who can I sue?

[sandyRoe]

You were a soldier, yes? Even if ammo was cracking off, if a man came and stood in plain sight looking at the aftermath of an incident would he be a legitimate target under the Yellow Card rules of engagement?

[BlackadderV]

It is worth noting that some of the 'antics' of the IRA in the 70s are reminiscent of those being practised by the ISIS today.

[ChillDoubt]

sandy, just one last question. If cases are supposedly still open, will we be seeing the IRA give up the names of those responsible for the Enniskillen Bombing or Burns accomplice on that fateful day(a prominent figure) admitting to his part?

[sandyRoe]

tamborine, did you not take action against the government, Criminal Injuries, for failing to protect you?

[tamborine]

No such service Sandy, merely ambulances to hospital for dressings etc. The litter bins were soon removed.

[ChillDoubt]

You were a soldier, yes? Even if ammo was cracking off, if a man came and stood in plain sight looking at the aftermath of an incident would he be a legitimate target under the Yellow Card rules of engagement?
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I wouldn't really know how I'd act in all honesty, stuck in the middle of that horrific double-explosion carnage, believing I was coming under fire whilst the body parts of my colleagues lay all around me.

[sandyRoe]

I've never heard the name of Burns before it was mentioned here this evening. Cases are still open. I'll expect to see a Republican give evidence against a comrade about the same time I see an old Para testify against his old oppos.

[sandyRoe]

Tamborine, does the criminal injuries compensation act not pertain in England?

[ChillDoubt]

It seems that some remained remarkably in control, even in those circumsatnces:

Press photographer Peter Molloy, who arrived at the scene after the first explosion, came close to being shot by an angry Paratrooper who saw him taking photographs of the dead and dying, instead of offering to help the wounded. The soldier was tackled by his comrades. 25 years later, Molloy said, "I was shouted at and called all sorts of things but I understood why. I had trespassed on the worst day of these fellas' lives and taken pictures of it."

[sandyRoe]

ChillDoubt, I respect your honesty.

[ChillDoubt]

I've never heard the name of Burns before it was mentioned here this evening.
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As a civilian I wouldn't expect you to. The names of the 'players and those OTR were obviously well circulated to the Security Forces though.

[sandyRoe]

That was to your post of 2:55.^
I've never said, nor do I think, that all soldiers who served here were scoundrels.

[ChillDoubt]

I feel the same about the civilians there too.
In all honesty, Northern Ireland was my favourite posting and I loved every minute there, even the hairy times!

[sandyRoe]

I remember there used to be units stationed in a disused mill in Albert St. near the lower Falls area. The Protestant girls used to come in their bus loads for social 'evenings' with the soldiers.
What wouldn't be not to like about that?

[sandyRoe]

^ what wouldn't there be not to like about..

[sandyRoe]

if you were a soldier

[ChillDoubt]

We actually went out quite a lot, especially on my 3rd tour. Nights in Newcastle, Comber, Lisburn, Bangor, Ballynahinch and Banbridge to name but a few.
Some of us who were detached from our main units(I was based in Armagh) against all regulations began taking at least one pistol with us on a night out after the Corporal's Killings.
I really did have some great times there and keep promising myself I'll go back one day and see how it's all changed.
One day.....

[sandyRoe]

You could come back now without the slightest worry.
I worked with a chap for years who'd served here with the Durham Light Infantry at the start of the troubles. He married a local girl and settled here. Then, years ago this was, some of the people we worked with invited him to go for a drink with them in Andersonstown, I advised him against it. All a long time ago. Now is different.

[DTCwordfan]

//Again this idea that no-one who was not personally present should hold strong views on the matter. That is a nonsense, and adhering to ideas like that breeds generations of morons who will blindly wander down the lane of their life taking no notice of how they got there as humankind or indeed what they can learn from their journey to make everyone's future better.//

I haven't said that and that's trying to twist what was said. Of course, anyone in our society should and can opine but it's often in reflectio, history and experience of the moment that justice and precedent can often be found.

What I did say is that folk who were on the ground as military or as civilians (like Sandy) should be listened to and their counsel taken seriously and not dismissed because of some ideological/political position - as that is surely the very root of being blinkered. Once the former is achieved, out of the considered points naturally should comes conclusion and rational explanation - and that these should reflect all sides of the argument.

In reading this thread as a neutral, and you will note that I have not added my 'alfpenny's' worth on it, I have felt that you risk falling into this trap of not giving due consideration. Take that for what it's worth and that's probably zero, malheureusement.

May I ask you what part of Slappy's arguments do you agree with or do you arrive at a conclusion that all of what he has written is bunkum? That may be a natural conclusion but one that, in this case, is perhaps extremely harsh. As has been said, these incidents in Northern Ireland and elsewhere have become very subjective and are very much steered by what happens in the heat of the moment, good or bad, deliberate or perceived, intent or mal-intent..... In that lies the root of my opinion by the way in that there are grievances on both sides that will probably never heal or be resolved. Is one party worse than the other? - that's virtually impossible to answer.