Now Here Is A True Ordinary Muslim.

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2907941/Moroccan-born-mayor-Rotterdam-tells-fellow-Muslims-not-appreciate-freedoms-living-West-pack-bags-f-live-TV.html

I was about to enter this story for discussion and then I noticed it had been removed according to TTT, so I will still enter it because up to ow I can't see anything wrong with the discussion topic.

[Old_Geezer]

Having read the article I think he put it rather well. And as it seems to imply he is (still) a Muslim that adds necessary weight to getting those who are unhappy with how things are done, to listen and seriously consider the view.

It's not as if the value of personal freedom stops those who arrive keeping many of their traditions, so long as it is kept for themselves and not forced on others who grew up in the dominant culture of the country they adopt. The balance is there for the incomer to opt to fit in with the existing, whilst the country accepts the incomer bringing a flavour of what they know and relate to. But balance is important.

[sp1814]

AOG

Sorry...I thought that the question was about true ordinary Muslims. I always thought that a persons deeds speak as much as their words, and the deeds of these two chaps strikes as a much more potent symbol of what it means to be ordinary.

One died in the line of duty and the other risked his life to save others.

I'm sure you might want to take a moment out to doff you metophorical cap to these two gents.

[sp1814]

But I have to say, despite the football terrace language used, the Mayor has a point...to a degree.

If I emigrated to a country, I would choose one in which I could live happily. I would not (say) choose to live in Russia, parts of the Middle East or the Deep South of America

[jourdain2]

Shame about the f-word, but worth tolerating to listen to a sensible viewpoint.

[anotheoldgit]

Retrochic

/// Swearing doesn't really bother me but in this context it detracts from what is a very good speech, what a pity. ///

I agree but at least perhaps if he hadn't used that word, it would not have got the media's interest and hence a subject up for discussion on AB.

[ChillDoubt]

What happened to the other thread covering this story? Was it pulled for nothing more than being a duplicate, or did somebody pee in the soup?

My post on that thread was:

Well said that man!

[Svejk]

Maybe Islam is waking/growing up. I hope so.
http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2015/01/president-sisis-speech

[TWR]

What a Sensible bloke, he is right in all he say's, they have taken the choice to live in France, they were not bullied to come into the Country, they were welcomed, except the way we live, except out Laws, Except our religion, if you do not like it Feck off, it's as simple as that.

[naomi24]

Svejk, I read that a few days ago. Bearing in mind the government of the Muslim Brotherhood, after only a short term of rule, was recently ousted in Egypt, I think the president is perfectly serious in his suggestion. Egypt has tried it the other way and he knows that if the world is ever to know anything close to relative peace, Islam needs to both wake up and grow up.

[jim360]

What did you make of the argument at the end of that article about possible ambiguity in what he's meaning?

[Svejk]

I don't know what that site is 'about', jim. It was the first place I could find the speech which on face value is very interesting
(to me, anyway)

[jim360]

It does on the face of it look interesting, yes. I was intrigued to see the comment after it, although I think the author was mainly just trying to sound a note of caution rather than casting serious doubt upon the speaker's meaning.

[FrogNog]

I think the swearing drives the point home.
He is angry. Angry at the way his religion is crashing its reputation before his eyes, angry at the mistrust he faces from his community and angry at atrocities he sees committed effectively in his name.
He is angry at the senseless violence committed in the name of islam. He is angry that they dare to abuse their belief like that and he is angry at being dragged down with them.
What more do you want from the man?
We are always hearing, where are the muslims speaking up against this that and the other, well here he is and all I see is yet more criticism.
Well said is what I would say to him if I met him. He's not advocating they leave, he's advocating they stop trying to bring their laws with them and asking them to fit in.
He says if their only way to do that is to kill people, that's when you should leave.
I agree with him.

[Answerprancer]

Now here is another...

[Answerprancer]

...2nd attempt

[Answerprancer]

3rd
...and just in case it fails AGAIN:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZRuH21JTak

[tamborine]

Thanks AP, a refreshing vid & I hope muslims heed his wisdom.

[Answerprancer]

It's great isn't it - I want to hug him.

[Svejk]

Excellent. When you compare his eloquence to the illiterate ramblings of, say, Abu Hamza or Anjem Choudary it's laughable. Unfortunately we can't force young, and not so young, muslims to listen what we would consider reason.

[Svejk]

to what^. ;-( how ineloquent, lol.