Time to get out of the EU

[rogerthomas]

A recent independent poll showed that, for the first time, a clear majority, 51%, want Britain to withdraw from the EU.

The EU costs Britain's taxpayers �30,000,000 per day, imagine what we could do with that. The EU is now saying that they will block our attempts to deport islamic hate-mongers because it violates their human rights!

Do you think it's time we pulled out?

[jno]

you think we can go in and out every time 1% change their fickle minds? Britain made a commitment. Stick to it.

[rogerthomas]

I'm not talking about going in and out.

 

I'm talking about coming out once and for all.

[Chessman]

The main problem is that the way the worlds shaping, and dividing into trading blocks, we have to go with one, its either Europe or America.

Think it over, and make you choice.

[El D]

Not exactly a balanced argument - whilst short term I would actually agree with you long term as Vic says we are buying a place at the table. Obviously that is �30 billion a year, not a day.

The days when small nation states on their own can make a difference anywhere is fast declining. Europe, despite the economic failings of its other countries, will within 100 years be a huge trading bloc and represent a world power. Better we try and lead them in directions which suit us rather than sit on our hands and then be forced by circumstance to join in unfavourable conditions.

[bernardo]

Yes.  I'm not in the mood for writing a long essay on the reasons why, but suffice it to say that it's a basic matter of democracy more than about economics or trading conditions.

[rogerthomas]

El D read it again, it says �30,000,000 per day.

 

Six zeros is a million not a billion.

[rogerthomas]

Bernardo, when you say it's a basic matter of democracy, I assume you mean a basic lack of democracy in the EU. The people who make all the decisions are unelected and unaccountable, i.e. the Commisioners.

 

Who elected Peter Mandelson to the post of Trade Commissioner. Remember this is the man who was twice sacked from the UK cabinet for serious misconduct. There is an old saying that says 'if you cant vote in those who govern you, then you can't vote them out'.

 

You will probably say 'but the european "parliament" is elected'. Well, yes it is but it has absolutely no power. MEPs are simply part of the huge Brussels gravy train.

 

The smart money is on the whole project imploding under its own weight within ten years.

[El D]

So it does - past my bedtime last night :)

I agree with most of what you say, even though the EU is making a big effort to make its machinery more accountable there is still a long way to go, but I think in large 'supra-national' (oooh) organisations where noone owes loyalty to the 'company' that they actually work for corruption is almost unavoidable. But I still stand by my first post regarding long term benefits.

[january_bug]

No I don't think we should pull out. 

No-one so far can be bothered to talk about the benefits we get from being in the EU.  I'm not going to bother as I suspect they too will be rubbished.  Fair enough as people certainly don't have to agree.  But for that reason, I'm not going to justify my answer, I'm simply answering with a firm "NO".

[Loosehead]

Ok imagine you can join a club, where you are one of only 2 that pay subs, the others however are all on committee and can control your home, your life, your job and it's always your round. You are the only one that obeys the rules, the others obey the ones they like, would you join? No way get out. Please can we stop with this trading block cobblers. The EU is a socialist anti progress, protectionist amorphirism, it's a mill stone. Leave now and prosper, and watch the others sink.

[OBonio]

What Loosehead said...

I've yet to see any personal benefit from being part of the EU. Maybe if I became a criminal or a terrorist I would....

[delboy3]

No.

The EU may not be perfect but it isn't the corrupt, undemocratic mess your party paints it to be.

Yes, I know you're from UKIP. The day we pull out is the day when you are elected into power, i.e. never.

[january_bug]

delboy - what about Veritas - that was a true mess wasn't it!?! :-p

Must say I've been loving the subtle campaining on here recently... is there a by-election coming up?!

[rogerthomas]

ukip ?

[january_bug]

If you really don't know... google will take you to www.ukip.org

I rather suspect you do know though!  Not that there's anything wrong in that mind... everyone's entitled to their vote and thus to their political opinion.  :-)

[Brugel]

I'm not particularly in favour of the EU but 51% is not really a clear majority at all. All opinion polls have an error of margin in them (assuming everything else is OK) and it's quite possible that the real percentage is under 50%.

[rogerthomas]

So the true figure could also be 53 or 54% by that logic.

[rogerthomas]

Here is the actual results of the survey.

YouGov survey results:  Sample size: 2299:  Fieldwork: 22nd to 25th July 2005.

Q1.  Do you think a national referendum should be held on whether the United Kingdom should or should not remain a member of the European Union?

Referendum should be held  62%

Referendum not necessary 25%

Don�t know 12%

Q2.  If a referendum were held, and these were the available options, which would you go for?

Britain leaving the European Union and replacing our membership with a free trade agreement  50%

Britain remaining a member of the European Union 34%

Don�t know 17%

[bernardo]

rogerthomas wrote:

Bernardo, when you say it's a basic matter of democracy, I assume you mean a basic lack of democracy in the EU.

Yes, and also a basic need for democracy in the UK without EU interference (which is why I answered "yes" to your question).

The people who make all the decisions are unelected and unaccountable, i.e. the Commisioners.

Precisely - as I have been saying for years (and have emphasised repeatedly in my last two general election campaigns).

Who elected Peter Mandelson to the post of Trade Commissioner?

Nobody

Remember this is the man who was twice sacked from the UK cabinet for serious misconduct.

"Remember"?  I hardly need reminding!!! :-)

There is an old saying that says 'if you cant vote in those who govern you, then you can't vote them out'.

Precisely my point.

You will probably say 'but the european "parliament" is elected'.

Why would I bother say that?  The fact that the European Parliament is irrelevant, because the EP is not where the power lies.  The power within the EU is with the unelected and unaccountable Commissioners and Council of Ministers.

Well, yes it is but it has absolutely no power.

Precisely my point.

MEPs are simply part of the huge Brussels gravy train.

Indeed they are, and that is part of the problem.

The smart money is on the whole project imploding under its own weight within ten years.

I jolly well hope so!!! But I think it will probably take longer than that, unfortunately.

[bernardo]

delboy3 wrote:

The EU may not be perfect but it isn't the corrupt, undemocratic mess your party paints it to be.

Yes it is.

Yes, I know you're from UKIP. The day we pull out is the day when you are elected into power, i.e. never.

No I'm not (as I have said numerous times before).  I have no reason to believe that rogerthomas is from the UKIP either.