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Prince Charles - Radicalisation Of British Muslims
53 Answers
What do you think of his views on this matter?
Could the Princes Trust play a key role in preventing young people being radicalised and also what about 'protector of other faiths' in multicultural Britain?
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Could the Princes Trust play a key role in preventing young people being radicalised and also what about 'protector of other faiths' in multicultural Britain?
http://
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So, Cameron is probably wasting his time with this....
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Anne - This is an example of a report detailing the POW's deep interest in Islam http://
(The Queen's a descendant of Mohammed PBUH? First time I've heard that one!)
(The Queen's a descendant of Mohammed PBUH? First time I've heard that one!)
Gromit
Granted there are a dozen or even more under used churches in my area. The reason being that this area used to be a predominately white christian area. The reasons for their under use is the subject of another topic though. More suited to Culture and Religion.Just because we see a decline in Christian worship doesn't mean we have to have Islam springing up to take it's place.
agchristie
Strange that when 10,000 plus Muslims celebrate Eid and the end of Ramadam at the Morden Mosque all the Red Route parking restrictions are ignored in gay abandon by the celebrants. The local police are out in force to stand around the Mosque but do a Nelson when it comes to the un -planned parking arrangements. This causes great angst to local shopkeepers whose trade is severely curtailed when Morden High St returns to the normal parking arrangements. Seems like one law for some.
Granted there are a dozen or even more under used churches in my area. The reason being that this area used to be a predominately white christian area. The reasons for their under use is the subject of another topic though. More suited to Culture and Religion.Just because we see a decline in Christian worship doesn't mean we have to have Islam springing up to take it's place.
agchristie
Strange that when 10,000 plus Muslims celebrate Eid and the end of Ramadam at the Morden Mosque all the Red Route parking restrictions are ignored in gay abandon by the celebrants. The local police are out in force to stand around the Mosque but do a Nelson when it comes to the un -planned parking arrangements. This causes great angst to local shopkeepers whose trade is severely curtailed when Morden High St returns to the normal parking arrangements. Seems like one law for some.
Naomi / AOG
// We had this conversation recently, and that statement (that the internet was to blame not mosques) was demonstrated to be false. //
It was not demonstrated to be false. As usual, you just ignore anything that does not confirm your opinion. The Home Affairs Select Commission investigated the causes of Violent Radicalism and their repirt is linked here. It confirms that the internet and not mosques is mainly to blame. It puts the figure for radicalising in mosques at 1% - 2%. But I am sure you will just ignore those findings.
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// Religious institutions
32. Charles Farr told us that violent radicalisation in mosques or other religious institutions comprises “no more than 1% or 2%” of the total cases of radicalisation.59 Our witnesses tended to agree that there was very little threat from the mosques. Alyas Karmani, for example, argued that “mosques are completely disconnected from young at risk Muslims”.60 The Prevent Strategy states that community resistance has reduced the open operation of radical preachers and driven many to operate out of private homes or the internet. Consequently, while the Strategy cautions ongoing vigilance against potential threats, its focus on mosques is more as a tool to help in countering extremist ideology by presenting competing points of view.61
The internet
33. Many of our witnesses cited the internet as the main forum for radicalisation.62 Sir Norman Bettison, the Association of Chief Police Officers’ lead for Prevent, told us that “the internet does seem to feature in most, if not all, of the routes of radicalisation”.63 It was regarded as particularly dangerous as it was now one of the few unregulated spaces where radicalisation is able to take place. According to the Home Office, the internet “plays a role in terms of sustaining and reinforcing terrorist ideological messages and enabling individuals to find and communicate with like-minded individuals and groups”.64 This seemed to be contradicted by more recent Home Office-commissioned research, which concluded that the internet “does not appear to play a significant role in Al Qa’ida- influenced radicalisation”. 65 Even those witnesses who attributed a significant role to the internet tended to support that report’s conclusion that some element of face-to-face contact was generally essential to radicalisation taking place, including with regards to the extreme far right, but by definition this does not deal with the issue of self radicalisation which by its very nature takes place in isolation and concerns have been expressed about the impact of ‘Sheikh Google’ on individuals who may be vulnerable, but have not been identified as starting on a journey of self radicalisation. //
// We had this conversation recently, and that statement (that the internet was to blame not mosques) was demonstrated to be false. //
It was not demonstrated to be false. As usual, you just ignore anything that does not confirm your opinion. The Home Affairs Select Commission investigated the causes of Violent Radicalism and their repirt is linked here. It confirms that the internet and not mosques is mainly to blame. It puts the figure for radicalising in mosques at 1% - 2%. But I am sure you will just ignore those findings.
http://
// Religious institutions
32. Charles Farr told us that violent radicalisation in mosques or other religious institutions comprises “no more than 1% or 2%” of the total cases of radicalisation.59 Our witnesses tended to agree that there was very little threat from the mosques. Alyas Karmani, for example, argued that “mosques are completely disconnected from young at risk Muslims”.60 The Prevent Strategy states that community resistance has reduced the open operation of radical preachers and driven many to operate out of private homes or the internet. Consequently, while the Strategy cautions ongoing vigilance against potential threats, its focus on mosques is more as a tool to help in countering extremist ideology by presenting competing points of view.61
The internet
33. Many of our witnesses cited the internet as the main forum for radicalisation.62 Sir Norman Bettison, the Association of Chief Police Officers’ lead for Prevent, told us that “the internet does seem to feature in most, if not all, of the routes of radicalisation”.63 It was regarded as particularly dangerous as it was now one of the few unregulated spaces where radicalisation is able to take place. According to the Home Office, the internet “plays a role in terms of sustaining and reinforcing terrorist ideological messages and enabling individuals to find and communicate with like-minded individuals and groups”.64 This seemed to be contradicted by more recent Home Office-commissioned research, which concluded that the internet “does not appear to play a significant role in Al Qa’ida- influenced radicalisation”. 65 Even those witnesses who attributed a significant role to the internet tended to support that report’s conclusion that some element of face-to-face contact was generally essential to radicalisation taking place, including with regards to the extreme far right, but by definition this does not deal with the issue of self radicalisation which by its very nature takes place in isolation and concerns have been expressed about the impact of ‘Sheikh Google’ on individuals who may be vulnerable, but have not been identified as starting on a journey of self radicalisation. //
Gromit, You said, “radicalising is done over the internet, not in Mosques”, and you now present me with statements like the internet is “mainly to blame”, and is “the main forum for radicalisation”, and “Even those witnesses who attributed a significant role to the internet tended to support that report’s conclusion that some element of face-to-face contact was generally essential to radicalisation taking place”. It would appear that you, rather than me, are rather more prone to ignoring that which doesn’t confirm your opinion. As I said, mosques, schools, and universities are not without responsibility.
*** Nabil Ahmed, of the Federation of Student Islamic Societies, added:
There are various myths surrounding the issue of campus extremism. There is far too much sensationalism and insufficient evidence or expertise in this wider discussion ... There is a notion that campuses are hotbeds of extremism, which is unfounded in the expertise and experience of the sector and the experience of
students. ***
Well he would say that wouldn't he, no one is going to blame one's own seat of learning are they?
*** Hannah Stuart of the Henry Jackson Society said that she understood why the Federation of Students Islamic Societies felt the need to defend Muslim students against the media focus on them, but pointed out that Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab was a former president of his University’s Islamic Society, who had been convicted in the US in October 2011 for a failed bomb attack on an aircraft. ***
It would seem that it is much easier and less likely to cause offence to blame the internet rather than Universities or Mosques these are more personal and it prevents the establishment from pointing a direct finger and it would also set up an argument against more Mosques being built.
There are various myths surrounding the issue of campus extremism. There is far too much sensationalism and insufficient evidence or expertise in this wider discussion ... There is a notion that campuses are hotbeds of extremism, which is unfounded in the expertise and experience of the sector and the experience of
students. ***
Well he would say that wouldn't he, no one is going to blame one's own seat of learning are they?
*** Hannah Stuart of the Henry Jackson Society said that she understood why the Federation of Students Islamic Societies felt the need to defend Muslim students against the media focus on them, but pointed out that Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab was a former president of his University’s Islamic Society, who had been convicted in the US in October 2011 for a failed bomb attack on an aircraft. ***
It would seem that it is much easier and less likely to cause offence to blame the internet rather than Universities or Mosques these are more personal and it prevents the establishment from pointing a direct finger and it would also set up an argument against more Mosques being built.
boxtops
The Air Training Corps, Combined Cadet Force, Army Cadets, Sea Cadet Corps are wonderful organisations for our young ones to join. Sadly some others in this country do not share our feelings. You may have read on a post on this site that two young female army cadets were threatened with having their heads cut off. Now who exactly do we suppose was responsible for this cowardly threat?
The Air Training Corps, Combined Cadet Force, Army Cadets, Sea Cadet Corps are wonderful organisations for our young ones to join. Sadly some others in this country do not share our feelings. You may have read on a post on this site that two young female army cadets were threatened with having their heads cut off. Now who exactly do we suppose was responsible for this cowardly threat?
boxtops
/// You could argue the same about any youth organisation, e.g. army cadets, air cadets. Round here, they have lots of members, thus helping keep youngsters off the streets and going aimlessly into bad habits. ///
Yes but the question that must be asked is "how many young Muslims join these groups or even be interested in the Prince's Trust"?
/// You could argue the same about any youth organisation, e.g. army cadets, air cadets. Round here, they have lots of members, thus helping keep youngsters off the streets and going aimlessly into bad habits. ///
Yes but the question that must be asked is "how many young Muslims join these groups or even be interested in the Prince's Trust"?
naomi
http://
Yes you are right in your assumption. They will not be swayed unless they want to be.
http://
Yes you are right in your assumption. They will not be swayed unless they want to be.
Naomi,
Not every would be jihadist is the same and it would not be wise to say there is a single path to becoming radicalised. But if we are serious about trying to stop it, concentrating on the 1% who are radicalised at a religious building is not going to reduce the figure very much at all.
I realise it fits with your anti-islam beliefs and you want to curtail muslims from worshipping, but to insist that closing the mosques will stop radicalisation of young muslims is a fantasy, which thankfully the All-Party Home Affair Committee does not believe.
Not every would be jihadist is the same and it would not be wise to say there is a single path to becoming radicalised. But if we are serious about trying to stop it, concentrating on the 1% who are radicalised at a religious building is not going to reduce the figure very much at all.
I realise it fits with your anti-islam beliefs and you want to curtail muslims from worshipping, but to insist that closing the mosques will stop radicalisation of young muslims is a fantasy, which thankfully the All-Party Home Affair Committee does not believe.
From AOG
"It would seem that it is much easier and less likely to cause offence to blame the internet rather than Universities or Mosques these are more personal and it prevents the establishment from pointing a direct finger and it would also set up an argument against more Mosques being built."
Interesting analysis. I'm just bookmarking this thread as I'm too unwell to read all the linked articles. Grim reading too, I expect.
"It would seem that it is much easier and less likely to cause offence to blame the internet rather than Universities or Mosques these are more personal and it prevents the establishment from pointing a direct finger and it would also set up an argument against more Mosques being built."
Interesting analysis. I'm just bookmarking this thread as I'm too unwell to read all the linked articles. Grim reading too, I expect.
The Princes Trust does indeed do a lot of fine work but I do wonder what the POW may have in mind. Any diversionary work in any field has to be welcomed but you do get the sense that the scale of the task here is a mammoth one and without wishing to sound like a merchant of doom, I am not convinced that this problem can come close to being eradicated.
Obviously, there are several routes to radicalisation and this accentuates the problem.
Obviously, there are several routes to radicalisation and this accentuates the problem.
Prince Charles impressed me in very many ways with his comments, but one thing he said made me realise how naive/sheltered/intellectually separate he is. I can't remember the exact words but it was to the effect that, simply, he could not understand how Muslims born and educated in Britain had not absorbed and accepted British values. Pleeease! He needs to go undercover a bit to understand the weight of 'the community' on children. He strikes me as a decent, caring, outreaching man (amazing, given his upbringing) and his work certainly does a lot of good - but he can't reach the depth of knowledge he needs and that's not his fault.
He did say that he wanted to protect the ability of all faiths to worship in Britain and, broadly, anyone can agree with that - but certain faiths drag in unacceptable cultural practices and when their stated aim is to be dominant then his view is questionable, but may lead to a period of peace.
He did say that he wanted to protect the ability of all faiths to worship in Britain and, broadly, anyone can agree with that - but certain faiths drag in unacceptable cultural practices and when their stated aim is to be dominant then his view is questionable, but may lead to a period of peace.
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